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#27012 - 10/23/06 05:27 AM Re: UK 4v4 Update special [Re: Robbo]
Cooperman Offline

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1099
Loc: UK
Robbo, that is what this campaign is all about so welcome all comments, as you say it has to work.

I put 8 or 9 a side at U11s.
YOu may be right about possibly 7a side at U10s. I think that can be fomulated into the 4v4. 2 or 3 4v4s games and a 7v7 or 8v8, kids rotate round. The think that is more apparrent is leagues are a problem, the more structure there is the more problems.

#27013 - 10/23/06 05:45 AM Re: UK 4v4 Update special [Re: Cooperman]
Robbo Offline

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 173
Loc: New Zealand
I personally see all the benefits for 4v4, and agree with pretty much all that has been said. I agree that leagues appear to give certain people an excuse to behave like a**eholes, but I also worry that the same people will find a way to behave just the same way inside larger clubs.

At some point people need to be trusted to act like adults, and if they can't they need outing.

Personally I love the Brasilian way, where young players do not ever go to a club until their mid-teens, up until that point they just play, play and play all with their hearts not being screamed at.

#27014 - 10/23/06 05:50 AM Re: UK 4v4 Update special [Re: Robbo]
Cooperman Offline

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1099
Loc: UK
What we are advocating is like the Brazilian way except it is in the safe environments of a club.

The real keys things are
Everyone plays
No leagues
A format where they get a lot of touches
No coaching in games
The kids ref themselves.

Thats street football, whether it is in Brazil, Bognor Regis or Amsterdam

#27015 - 10/23/06 06:04 AM Re: UK 4v4 Update special [Re: Cooperman]
Ralph17 Offline

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 207
Loc: Hampshire, UK
I agree no leagues for U11s/U12s

Just an excuse for bad behaviour by adults
Football is FOR LIFE and there's more to LIFE than Football

#27016 - 10/23/06 06:16 AM Re: UK 4v4 Update special [Re: Cooperman]
acmeone Offline

Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 85
Loc: Essex
I agree that the leagues are going to be the biggest obstactle.

I think the message needs to be clear to them that we are not trying to stop organised football (although for some leagues I guess "organised" is questionable anyway) but want to eradicate the negative areas of the league format at the younger age groups.

If they still want to register kids and take money off them so they can buy a new club tie each season then "organise" (that word again) 4v4 events in conjunction with the clubs that are registered.

#27017 - 10/23/06 06:24 AM Re: UK 4v4 Update special [Re: acmeone]
Cooperman Offline

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1099
Loc: UK
John Allpress the player development guy at the FA rang to say he would back up the 'let the children' play message with any paper etc we talk to.
Hes a top bloke!

We are getting a lot of support now from different areas

#27018 - 10/23/06 06:59 AM Re: UK 4v4 Update special [Re: Cooperman]
Richard H Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 59
Loc: Keighley, West Yorkshire
Coops, we need people like John Allpress to make the change nationally with the League's. We must persuade the FA that this is what is needed NOW if we are to make a difference in the long term. The FA booklet on Mini Soccer needs re writing, and League's must adopt the new 4v4 system or they will have their Affilitions suspended. Similarly all Clubs must sign up to accept the new system, - a simple tick box on Club's Affliation re newal forms would suffice.

#27019 - 10/23/06 10:53 AM Re: UK 4v4 Update special [Re: Cooperman]
RichW Offline

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 301
Loc: UK
I'm going back 37 years now, but in 1969 when I first started senior school, Johnny Allpress was captain of the school 1st XI (when school football was serious), so he was either in the fifth or sixth year at that time.

I kid you not, the way he played, he was the closest thing I have ever seen to Bobby Moore. He even resembled him to look at in his looks and the way he moved about on the pitch. As I remember, all of the top teams in London were looking at him very closely and I often wondered what happened to him until about 5 years ago when I realised he was at the FA.

He played in the same side as Les Reed and they were great mates. He was a massive influence on me as a player, as I wanted to be as good as both him and Mooro. When I eventually reached the fifth year I managed to do the same as him and wear the same shirt. Around that time, the school decided a new kit was needed and we were allowed to keep the old shirts. I've still got it today, short sleeved red V-veck with a white number 6 on the back!

If you speak to him again, ask him if he remembers it. I would love to send it on to him because he's the rightful owner!

What a player though!

#27020 - 10/23/06 11:13 AM Re: UK 4v4 Update special [Re: Robbo]
WillieB Offline

Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 1557
Coops, I think
4v4 for up to six yo
and then add a GK for 7 yos, so 5v5

However I watch 8 yos playing 7v7 and I think they handle it very well. I think 7v7 is a good transition from 5v5 as adding a second defender and a third midfielder (2-3-1 for those who like the numbers) gives us two adjacent 4v4s

I would then introduce 9v9 at 10/11 (3-3-2 for those who like numbers) and them move to 11v11 as previously stated.

As for leagues, who needs them?

One of the big problems i see isn't the number of players, it's the adults who think it's all about winning - get rid of them, let the kids play and improvement will come naturally - but then you know that anyway.

I would introduce 9v9 before 11v11 and I believe that 11v11 should be introduced at 12 yo (so is that U13 in england?)

#27021 - 10/23/06 02:51 PM Re: UK 4v4 Update special [Re: WillieB]
Paul_P Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 79
I think the natural progression of increasing players per team is generally given, every 2 seasons extra players should be added.
U6-u7 4v4
u8-u9 5v5
U10-u11 7v7
u12-13 9v9
U14 11v11

Then you have the problem with squad sizes:
If you have a 4 a side team you need 5 in case of illness, holidays etc.

If the idea is to give as much playing time as possible per player then you would have 4 squads of 5 =20 players =5 4 a side teams per club.

Then you would have a good ratio of players to matches for each games level as you progress.

The league could have the same overall control in terms of acting as a 'fixer' to enable clubs to get together (although that may be what County Fa should do?)
There would be more emphasis on the leagues to sell themselves to the clubs rather than for them to impose their rules (and usually fines on clubs)

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