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#49621 - 03/10/09 05:43 PM Re: List of Restrictions, Conditions, and Allowances [Re: coachkev]
johnmc04 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 2873
Loc: uk
Kev, that's a bit below the sporran mate!
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Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

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#49627 - 03/10/09 07:00 PM Re: List of Restrictions, Conditions, and Allowances [Re: johnmc04]
Antony Wilshaw Offline
journeyman

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 84
Loc: NYC
I just got back from coaching a tournament and coaching war 1 has started on this thread. To be honest, this a great thread and I want people to continue putting up ideas. I love small sided training, pretty much all my sessions for the entire session are run through the format one way or another with my older teams. I have plenty of ideas and know why I do what I do in training, but really want to read more and get peoples input. Isn't that what we all signed up for on here?
Lets keep it clean, keep it friendly and keep on helping each other. Wille, come on mate, when you contribute its really good stuff, lets keep that going instead of this other stuff. We are all on the same bus? Learning and trying to improve ourselves and in turn the players we work with. Please keep the ideas flowing. Thats my 2 cents!!!

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#49628 - 03/10/09 07:24 PM Re: List of Restrictions, Conditions, and Allowances [Re: johnmc04]
coachkev Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/22/02
Posts: 5088
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: johnmc04
Kev, that's a bit below the sporran mate!


john,
He knows its only in jest, christ he's torn me to shreds at times, especially when he's had 4 Shreaded Wheat for breakfast.

He's like the Whale in Free Willy....blows a lot and makes a big splash now and again, but underneath all that blubber, he's...... well BIG. grin and he's got a THICK skin wink

I've NO doubt he's sharpening the knives as we speak laugh

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#49630 - 03/10/09 07:58 PM Re: List of Restrictions, Conditions, and Allowances [Re: coachkev]
WillieB Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 1557
Originally Posted By: coachkev
Originally Posted By: johnmc04
Kev, that's a bit below the sporran mate!


john,
He knows its only in jest, christ he's torn me to shreds at times, especially when he's had 4 Shreaded Wheat for breakfast.

He's like the Whale in Free Willy....blows a lot and makes a big splash now and again, but underneath all that blubber, he's...... well BIG. grin and he's got a THICK skin wink

I've NO doubt he's sharpening the knives as we speak laugh


No Kev, I don't find this amusing.

Go read my post that started all the crap, it's the second one on page two, tell me what this eejit found so offensive about it?

Not only did I ask questions of the original post I also explained why and suggested alternatives. What do I get in response, this twat telling me he'll spell it out for me, that's about all he can spell - it.

I don't have a problem with other posters holding different opinions about drills, soccer and anything, in fact that's when things get interesting however when they can't back up what they say then their credibility drops and IMO this guys on a par with Russ in that respect. As far as I'm concerned this guy doesn't exist any more so he can post all he wants, I won't be reading it.




Edited by WillieB (03/10/09 08:21 PM)

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#49631 - 03/10/09 08:18 PM Re: List of Restrictions, Conditions, and Allowances [Re: johnmc04]
WillieB Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 1557
Originally Posted By: johnmc04
Before we close Willie,I will ask the question.
What type of conditioned games do you use Willie? And how are these different from the previous examples?
Interested to hear as there are always many different solutions to the same problem!



Sorry John, not had a chance to answer this one.

I don't use conditioned games a such, especially at the moment as I'm working with 8 yos and under however I have used them in the past with older players, I've listed a few below.

Over the years I've found that some conditions can actually become restrictions and you find players react in a way tou wouldn't want them to do in a real match so you have to ask yourself if the condition is worth imposing. What is the purpose of conditioned games? there are a few howver one is that you make the condition become habit, I want players to play naturally.

Here's a couple of games, not all used by myself but seen others using

You can only score with a header or first time shot.
Ok so we want to encourage players to take the opportunity however quite often I've seen players either make an awkward lunge at the ball with no chane of scoring or pulling the ball down and instead of taking the shot with their second touch they'll pass the ball away from the opposition goal

You can only score with your weak foot
Again it can be counter-productive as players will quite often not take the natural opportunity with their good foot in order to get the ball onto their weak foot. Now I've seen players who miss an orrortunity to shoot because the ball comes to their weak foot but they don't take it and by the time they get the ball onto their good foot the chance is gone

OK, nothing wrong with these conditions however they can be counter-productive depending on the circumstance so my suggestion is don't impose the condition but reward the player for meeting the condition, e.g. goals count double, or triple

Two touch
Great activity however it can break down. I've seen players take their first touch and their opponents back off and cover all their passing options forcing them to hit a long hopeful ball, not what the condition is designed for. Solution, keep the area and numbers relatively small to reduce the chance of this happening

You can only score from a cross
Again can be counter-productive so allow double goals


Every player in the team must touch teh ball before a goal can be scored
Again WHy, dead simple solution to this one, just go surround one of your opponents as they can't score until he gets a touch

Now a couple from my favourite coach
Side-to-side
Ball must go from one touchline to the other before a goal can be scored, the idea is to force switching play. Why? you don't always want to switch play so why force it. If I was playing in this conditioned game and I was in the team defending I'd just go get a few of my team-mates and go hang about the opposite touchline knowing the ball MUST come over to me

Three and a drop
I maybe don't have this one 100% correct but it's something about not being allowed to play more than three forward passes in a row or not being allowed to score unless there's been a drop pass
Anyway, again the condition is restrictive and it FORCES the players to play a pas sthat may not be the best option.


As I said earlier there is a risk that you make some of these conditions habits, do you really want to?

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#49632 - 03/10/09 10:17 PM Re: List of Restrictions, Conditions, and Allowances [Re: WillieB]
imcone Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/03/09
Posts: 33
Loc: Chicago
Since I don't exist, you may not answer me. However, what is wrong with asking your players to rise to the challenges that I and others have suggested? I understand your play-natural argument. I think at younger ages that's great. We want to develop individual competencies, flair, creativity, improv, goal scoring abilities, etc. I would not be the biggest fan of my own kids (7 & 9) going through an all tactical experience where all the above list items are being forced on them. However, if a coach told them you can only score off a one timer from a negative ball, so be it. I think that coach, me, and my kids (and everyone for that matter) knows that this is just one of the countless situations in the game. They need to be exposed to it, they need to know of the possibilities.

My players are older: U15s-U19s. I grant you that playing natural is still important. We play w/o conditions quite a bit. I still want to develop the things, listed above, that were so important at the younger ages. However, sometimes what they bring to the table in a natural sense is not all that good...or it doesn't always fit in with the direction of the team. In those instances, I need to teach. I need to have them experience something different. I would be failing them if I did not. I want a team that is on the same page, technically and tactically. I work very hard to bring that about. Each year, I aspire to have great teams. In order to do so, I look at other great teams (at older youth ages to the professional sides). I am an Arsenal fan, a Corintians fan...actually a big Brasilian league fan (I have maintained a CBF License for five years). I absolutely know 100% that these entities put conditions on their players in SSGs. Are you ready to say that they are doing the wrong thing? For what purpose do they do it? There are infinite answers. Ultimately, to give their players the ability to deal with an infinite amount of situations.

Guys, we can be rational and keep the list going. For everyone's sake, we should probably discuss why we are putting the restriction, condition, or allowance on the players. Willie, I apologize if I have gotten under your skin in some way. It was not my intention. I still don't understand what the problem is with what is proposed in the original post. I don't think many others do either.
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"In order to create there must be a dynamic force. And what force is greater than love?"

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#49635 - 03/11/09 05:31 AM Re: List of Restrictions, Conditions, and Allowances [Re: imcone]
johnmc04 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 2873
Loc: uk
Willie a lot of good points you make especially for working with younger players as you are at the moment but I would also say that these conditions that are being suggested are being used in TRAINING games and allow the coach to work on things he thinks his team need to work on in games so he manipulates sessions to throw up coaching points.
I think there is NO wrong answers here just different ways to address the many problems that the game throws up after all that's why we are all coaches to try to help players solve problems.
Keep the debate flowing it's a good one.
_________________________
Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

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#49636 - 03/11/09 08:32 AM Re: List of Restrictions, Conditions, and Allowances [Re: johnmc04]
coachkev Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/22/02
Posts: 5088
Loc: UK
Willie,
As I said before, you are better than that....dont lett minimeRuss get to you. It may be that he wants alternatives and he put it over in the wrong way.
But NOONE is worse than Russ.

As for 'conditioned....oooops Challenge' SSGs

One I DO like is the MIRROR GAME.
Where a normal game is challenged so that EVERY pass is a Mirror of the previous pass.
This DOESNT stop running or dribbling the ball, its just the PASSING that is challenged.
The passes can be short long, on the ground or in the air, but the pass mirrors the angle of the preceding one.

So if you received a pass going towards your goal, then YOUR pass must be towards the opponents goal and vice versa.
Another way of putting it is to challenge that no two consecutive passes go in the SAME direction (unless a shot on target is taken)

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#49637 - 03/11/09 08:40 AM Re: List of Restrictions, Conditions, and Allowances [Re: johnmc04]
paul12 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 2810
Loc: Northern Virginia
Willie, when I had younger ages like you do, I found the restriction of having to use weaker foot helpful at building some ability and confidence with that foot. I never saw it hinder kids in a game - but after working this SSG several times over the course of a season, I'd start to see them one at a time play the natural kick with their weaker foot, not everytime but every once in a while.

Understand what you are saying about being restrictive, but it seems to me it can be used to expand their skills, comfort levels and thus options during a game. The left-footed thing is just one and perhaps the most obvious example.

I guess you're saying you can get to the same place by rewarding them for using the left, with a second goal or something. I can see that, though with this particular example I think if I gave the U8s I had any option to use their strong foot they would use it every time.

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#49639 - 03/11/09 09:47 AM Re: List of Restrictions, Conditions, and Allowances [Re: paul12]
coachkev Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/22/02
Posts: 5088
Loc: UK
I feel that the trick is that instead of 'conditioning', we reward the effort to try and perform the 'challenge'.

So, for example, instead of stating that you can only score with your weak foot, say.." Normal goal if scored from your strongest foot, but 3 goals if scored from your weakest foot"

Positive aims are much better than restrictive controls.
Forcing a player to do something unnatural that they will rarely if ever experience in actual play is not going to develop a players decision making.

Technique refinement is okay within specified and specific drills etc, but in SSG's, the ability to make correct decisions AND carry them out is only going to be achieved through natural development both in techniques and tactics.

Remember...REWARD instead of RESTRICTION!

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