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#39177 - 12/02/07 09:47 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: AndyBarney]
PLEASE Offline
journeyman

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 83
Loc: LALA Land
Andy,

You used some great moves there! The way you appeared to answer the question I raised without really answering it was very creative.

I really like a couple of things you said. I think you would generate a lot more positive feedback and possibly change the way some people coach if you would focus more on this:

"My objective here is to educate open-minded parents to recognize the differences and take their children to the good coaches. It is also to get misguided coaches to adopt less damaging methods."

You pointed out that, "Locally there are coaches that are excellent, somewhat good, average, poor or frankly disgusting in their emphasis." I think most people would agree with this statement.

This is one of the only times I've heard you acknowledge that there are good coaches in KC that DON'T coach for the legends. The problem that many people have with your posts is that they come across as self-serving and arrogant. You frame the argument as legends vs traditional rather than good coaching practices vs poor coaching practices.

Include these kinds of statements in more of your posts and I think you'll find a lot more fans than critics, whether you answer their questions or not.

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#39178 - 12/02/07 12:03 PM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: PLEASE]
Soccadad
Unregistered


I have read this topic with interest and a few others by Andy Barney. Am I right in assuming that Andy thinks he is the only person to coach the right things the right way to our kids? And does he believe that everyone else coaches the wrong way and the wrong things to our kids. To cap it all off, does he think that what and how he coaches gives better life lessons to our young kids. I"m not going to argue whether he is right or wrong but I am totally astounded by his ego that makes him think that and even more taken aback by his constant public pushing of his theory. All I can say is good luck Andy. But it is either your message or how you push that message across that is failing as witnessed by the counter arguments that are pretty much the only responses.

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#39185 - 12/02/07 05:21 PM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: ]
AndyBarney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1686
Soccadad

My philosophy is massively different and better for children. I make no apologies for having a completely different approach that has been so well researched and tested (nearly 20 years) that kids can really have a positive experience in every way by experiencing it. Why should I? My message would be less effective in making kid's lives more positive should I pretend my approach is just a variation on the traditional.

If you read my book you will understand just how much better for kids it is. If you go to the alumni section of our website you will see the positive results Legends children have had.

I truly feel I have created a much more beneficial way of learning for soccer and life (through soccer). I also feel that failing to point out how very different it is would be a complete disservice to children.

Study it and whether you agree with my methods or not you will have to agree it is completely out of the traditional box and has every child's best interests at heart.

Some of the best soccer minds in the nation also agree that it is the best approach for developing kids for and through soccer.

Anson Dorrance (UNC), Brian Tompkins (Yale), Jim Sheldon(NSCAA Exec' Dir'), Sean Holmes (Drake) to name a few. Google them.

\:\) Andy Barney
KC Legends Soccer Club Director of Coaching
Office 913-851-9898 x 40 Cell 913-636-4073
e-mail: andy@kclegendssoccer.com
Website kclegendssoccer.com
15225 Broadmoor, Stanley, KS 66223

To see dribbling moves we teach visit: http://www.greggriess.com/moves_fakes.htm

PS: I was with Anson Dorrance in August and he warned me to expect to be accused of being arrogant by people with different opinions because he has been similarly labeled many times. Those with the courage of their convictions often appear arrogant when all they are is passionately committed.


Edited by AndyBarney (12/02/07 05:56 PM)

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#39189 - 12/02/07 10:36 PM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: AndyBarney]
Skeech Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 739
Loc: Where Seldom Is Heard...A Disc...
no doubt you have passion Andy and I think most embrace that.

I am just wondering, with your previous quote of tradition v. whatever, how on earth you train a player without the traditional values?

I'm thinking those values (traditionally) must include,from your quote:

"Many are already commonly accepted e.g. teamwork, work ethic, rule adherence, organization of time, commitment, recovery from negative events, conflict resolution etc etc"

Are you saying those values (traditional) are not important?

Quite frankly, I think it takes a lot of work for those to be a GIVEN Tradition!

And without those, what is there to build on?

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#39190 - 12/02/07 11:07 PM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: AndyBarney]
Kaka Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 2316
What made you see the error of your ways Andy? Was it a series of events or a particular event?

Since you have seen multiple developmental cycles in your 20 years of coaching, some when you were coaching badly and some with your newer methods, what is the biggest difference you have seen? More kids that have stayed with the sport longer? More kids achieving a higher level?

I am sure you had plenty of kids that achieved a high level under your bad coaching. What is the difference in a kid now vs then? How can you tell you are instilling some of these values that you talk about?

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#39192 - 12/03/07 07:13 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: Kaka]
Keep It Fun Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 2404
Loc: Kansas City, MO
K,
What's the deal?
Are you now AB's personal "Bryant freakin' Gumble"?

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#39193 - 12/03/07 08:43 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: Kaka]
AndyBarney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1686
Everyone begins existence enjoying unsuppressable amounts of inquisitiveness. However, we are taught at school that correct responses are what the teacher expects. Teachers rarely delight in the lack of structure that results when questions become the foundation for education. Most shy away from ambiguity in order to impart factual knowledge. Instead of the prize going to the creative questioner the reward goes to the pupil who comes up with the answer the teacher wants. Originality is discouraged and replaced by students who learn to play the "grade game". This is where the pupil comes up with the "correct answer" i.e. the one the teacher wants.



This establishment demanded, curiosity restricting, tradition emulating soccer coaching philosophy has served to provide our game and the adventure of life with too many relatively unskilled assembly line workers and too few adaptable pioneers of creative solutions. As a consequence too few are capable of solving life's biggest problems and those who can are vilified for their heresies. The current traditional educational climate in school and soccer does little to prepare us to creatively structure and adapt to life at the speed of the internet age. What soccer coaches can do is prepare their players for the new Renaissance in soccer and by doing so teach and encourage them to transfer this embracement of ambiguity to their daily lives. If this is to be achieved each practice has to be an exercise in creative challenge of the most elevated nature possible at each player's current stage of development. Players need to be taught to hone their ability to solve ever more complicated soccer equations by asking more of their body and mind on a continual basis. This involves asking the right questions as opposed to seeking definitive answers. Players must be taught to ask, "How can I view this differently to come up with unpredictable, but better, solution?". In life all progress is made by those individuals who go beyond where they were the day before, every day, by finding better ways to solve challenges. In primitive cultures the solution for obtaining water was to travel to where the source of supply was. Similarly the solution to obtaining meat was to hunt. As culture advanced the better farming solution became to irrigate, (bring the water in), and gaurantee the meat supply, (raise livestock). The better question was asked and answered. Similarly in soccer, (and by extension life), we need to teach our players to look at problems creatively. Through appropriate technical and decison making education we must teach them to acquire unusually powerful problem solving capabilities and the great self-concept that goes with it. Why spend one's life asking, "what's the meaning of life?' when the better question is, "how can I make children's lives more meaningful?"



When coaches ask, "How do I win the next game?" they are asking the wrong question. Certainly the solution to that instant gratification question may be within immediate reach, however, as illustrated by the above agrarian example, the better and longer lasting solution to soccer and life problems usually involves taking a long term developmental perspective i.e. "How do I maximize my character so that I can embrace ambiguity and solve the problems I have never before encountered that life will inevitably throw at me?"

\:\) Andy

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#39194 - 12/03/07 08:59 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: AndyBarney]
D. Stuteville Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 881
Loc: In La-La Land
"How do I maximize my character so that I can embrace ambiguity and solve the problems I have never before encountered that life will inevitably throw at me?"


Yes, my 8 year old son was asking me that very question yesterday.......
_________________________
We don't wear cups, we win them.
Bad spellers of the world...UNTIE!!!!

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#39195 - 12/03/07 09:02 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: Keep It Fun]
Kaka Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 2316
Hey..I figure at the very least we are going to get a good 12 step program out of these questions. You know "My name is Andy and I am powerless over my addiction to winning".

Andy the agrarian example is not a good one. Try "Omnivore's Dilemna" for your holiday reading. You will enjoy that book, I guarantee you.

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#39196 - 12/03/07 10:04 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: Kaka]
AndyBarney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1686
What made you see the error of your ways Andy?

Multiple confrontations with parents who informed me that they were unhappy with my actions. E.g. sitting their child on the bench and crushing self-concept in the process.

Was it a series of events or a particular event?

A series for sure!!

What is the biggest difference you have seen?

I've got more wrinkles and my eyesight is fading!

Seriously though, with the onset of ranking systems for those as young as 8 or 9 and the intense media exposure winners and losers in all strata of society are given, our culture is more cynical and soul destroying than ever before. The culture is moving more towards the short-term team win instead of towards the individual win that leads to long-term success. Funnily enough the long-term perspective inevitably leads to team wins because of the positive individual development enjoyed at every stage of the process.

With regard to my own players I can directly relate the relative life success of the individuals involved to the amount of time those kids spent with me. For example the players from the two teams I coached longest from 4, 5 and 6 years of age through to college recruitment have enjoyed inordinate levels of individual leadership and societal success at a very young age. The parents and players attribute much of this creative leadership capability to the way in which they were taught to think creatively and explore new ways to look at life through the Legends approach. I'm equally sure that if these same kids had been taught to play the restricted roles typical of most premier teams their unique creative capabilities wouldn't have been developed to the same degree. Anyone who understands the science of nurture and believes that role models have a positive influence should be able to see the logic in this.

What is the difference in a kid now vs then?

Kids are becoming less fit at an earlier age. Kids today (as opposed to when I started the club) have so many distractions. They spend less time on the physical and more time on the mentally stimulating, entertainment side of life. They relate less face to face and more in cyberspace. Consequently, the need for creative, athletic training in organized, (yet ambiguity promoting), situations has never been greater or more crucially important. The great problem is that ambiguity is rarely promoted in "organized" environments. Therefore, child creative conflict resolution skills and ambiguity embracement has to now be built into the "organized" experience (How about that for Ying and Yang!!).

How can you tell you are instilling some of these values that you talk about?

Objective and subjective feedback.

Objective feedback would be such things as the Legends alumni list, leadership positions achieved by Legends alumni.

Subjective feedback comes from ex-players and their parents who believe the philosophy as been a powerful positive factor in alumni success.

I hope this helps.

\:\) Andy Barney
KC Legends Soccer Club Director of Coaching
Office 913-851-9898 x 40 Cell 913-636-4073
e-mail: andy@kclegendssoccer.com
Website kclegendssoccer.com
15225 Broadmoor, Stanley, KS 66223

To see dribbling moves we teach visit: http://www.greggriess.com/moves_fakes.htm

PS: Always ignore the bigots who seek to stamp on the curious mind or different perspective.

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