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#62401 - 11/14/09 06:18 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: herewegoagain]
TTown Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 333
I guess even the Boca boys sell out from time to time.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=698319&sec=worldcup2010&cc=5901

GO IRELAND!!!! BEAT FIFA'S SELF SERVING SEEDING RULE CHANGE. BEAT THOSE NASTY FRENCH!!!!

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#62408 - 11/14/09 02:54 PM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: herewegoagain]
AndyBarney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1684
herewegoagain

We'll probably never know how good Tim's teams would have been from age 14 to 18 because of his high school coaching commitments.

Historically the Legends program has built a far greater deceptive dribbling and finishing component than any other program. Teams trained in this way when they were younger played an ever better team game as we focused more on combination play and passing components of the game between 14-18 years of age.

The major difference was the sheer number of Legends players, defenders, midfielders, (even goalies), who could use a move in high level competition in any area of the field at 17/18.

To develop players who are stll able to perform the Christiano type skills when in their late teens, the focus on deceptive dribbling has to be very intense for much longer than even the most enlightened traditional coaches believe.

When the U18 87/88 Legends won the USYSA Regional Championship, the winning goal against Busch,(now St Louis SC), came from the free kick earned when Mark Roennigke was fouled as he did a Maradona Turn.

When the U16 79/80 Legends won the USYSA Regional Championship, the winning goal came when Jason Cole beat three Omaha defenders in a solo dribble from his own half.

When the 81/82 Legends won the USYSA Regional Championship, the winning goal came when Joe Burns dribbled past 5 Javanon defenders and scored from a position 15 yards inside his own half.

Every team I ever coached into their mid-teens also played a cultured passing game. This is an exercise in simple common sense and logic. They could hold the ball under pressure until the right moment to pass, instead of being forced into passing at an inappropriate time by defensive pressure.

The Brazilians are great passers for the same reason. Everyone on Brazil's teams through the years have been such great dribblers that they hold the ball under extreme pressure until the perfect moment to make the pass.

I hope this clarifies why we have always focused so intensely on developing the best ball handlers and goal scorers (the goal scoring shot is the hardest pass) at the earlier ages.

It is very simple logic. Any child who can hold the ball until the time is right to pass and also shoot with accuracy and power, (same technique as passing but much harder), will be a very special team player as they mature.

smile Andy

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#62409 - 11/14/09 06:46 PM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: AndyBarney]
Jo King Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 46
Loc: Kansas City
Andy,

You keep telling us about your teams from 10+ years ago, can you tell us more about your current teams? I've watched a few Legends games and unfortunatley these players are NOT the best "ball handlers" in the world? to claim they are Brazilian is laughable. Why play in tournaments if you don't coach to win? Over the last 10 years your teams have struggled and your now a Bronze level club. I don't know why you are so arrogant?

Jo

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#62410 - 11/14/09 09:16 PM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: AndyBarney]
herewegoagain Offline
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Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 239
Andy,
You are going off on a different tangent talking about past teams that have nothing to do about the line of reasoning we were discussing. You stated, "Tim will tell you that he coaches a very similar method to ours at the younger ages". What I was asking is if your methods are so similar than why does his teams pass so much better than the Legends teams and win so many games at the younger age groups?

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#62414 - 11/15/09 06:07 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: herewegoagain]
johnmc04 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 2873
Loc: uk
Originally Posted By: herewegoagain
Andy,
You are going off on a different tangent talking about past teams that have nothing to do about the line of reasoning we were discussing. You stated, "Tim will tell you that he coaches a very similar method to ours at the younger ages". What I was asking is if your methods are so similar than why does his teams pass so much better than the Legends teams and win so many games at the younger age groups?


Please don't confuse winning with development.
You make a very good point regarding the passing element but another team 'winning' more in youth football doesn't mean the players are any better or worse.
Results are usually sacrificed for development by most coaches worth their salt.
_________________________
Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

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#62420 - 11/15/09 09:17 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: TTown]
AndyBarney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1684
TTown

Quote:
I guess even the Boca boys sell out from time to time.


Here's Dunga's quote after yesterday's game against England:

Quote:
Brazil coach Dunga said England they will need to learn how to dribble if they are going to make any impression on the World Cup favourites next summer.

"If they couldn't get past us they will have to learn to dribble then,'' he said. "But they got 11 men behind the ball themselves, so they know what it is like.''


Even if England has all their players fit, Brazil has so much more dribbling and goal scoring talent that they will be favorites to win the World Cup this summer as always.

smile Andy

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#62422 - 11/15/09 09:39 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: herewegoagain]
AndyBarney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1684
herewegoagain

Here's what I said in response to your first post:

Quote:
Historically the Legends program has built a far greater deceptive dribbling and finishing component than any other program. Teams trained in this way when they were younger played an ever better team game as we focused more on combination play and passing components of the game between 14-18 years of age.

The major difference was the sheer number of Legends players, defenders, midfielders, (even goalies), who could use a move in high level competition in any area of the field at 17/18.

To develop players who are stll able to perform the Christiano type skills when in their late teens, the focus on deceptive dribbling has to be very intense for much longer than even the most enlightened traditional coaches believe.


I hope the message that we focus to a far greater degree on deceptive dribbling and finishing than any other program I have yet seen, (Including Tim's who I respect very much!), explains why all our players are usually excellent at those two specific skills.

My experience is that I could sacrifice some of this dribbling/finishing time for passing but eventually (in the long run) my players would be weaker dribblers and finishers, and no better at passing, if I did.

There's no magic formula to anything we do. We teach the techniques the right way, we get our players to "deep practice" (Daniel Coyle - The Talent Code), those skills and gradually transition the advanced technical skills of our players into the game situation in very unique ways so that the technical, tactical, physiological & psychological potential of our players is maximized.

The only way to fully understand the whole incredibly logical, yet very different, method is to read my first book "Training Soccer legends".

If you want a free PDF copy of "Training Soccer Legends" please call me at 913-636-4073 or email me at andy@kclegendssoccer.com

I will warn you that the book is 320 pages long and will make traditional coaches feel very uncomfortable, (It was uncomfortable to write!), so it's not for the casual reader or faint hearted. It contains all the conclusions from 35 years of soccer coaching. The first 15 years I did things the traditional "wrong" way. The last 20 years I learned what didn't work and applied study of soccer in Brazil & other world cultures, educational theory, phys'ed' theory, logic, rationale and trial/error to soccer's urban myths. During this long process I wrote the book. Because of this time and dedication what the Legends club now practices is significantly better for each and every child than most programs. This is because others haven't gone through this long arduous process and tested evey theory extensively.

If you read the book I think you'll find it hard to argue most of the points.

Here's what some incredibly knowledgeable people have said about the book:

“Andy has figured out the core of what makes players valuable. He has boiled the game down to its critical essence. He captivated and motivated me with his intelligent use of inspiring and meaningful quotations. It’s a book not just about the technical foundation of the game but also about the elements that define the margins of soccer greatness i.e. aggressive creativity, self-discipline, competitive fire and self-belief.

Wonderfully original!! It should be an essential component of any soccer coach or parent’s library. It’s outstanding!!”

Anson Dorrance – Head Women’s Coach at the University of North Carolina (18 NCAA Division I Championships) & 1991 FIFA Women’s World Cup Winner.

"A must for youth soccer coaches. Read it. Think about it. Then, reconsider everything you do. If you can't take away something - quite possibly a lot - from this book, you are doing a disservice to your players."

Jim Sheldon – Executive Director of the National Soccer Coaches Association of America

"Andy has summed up his unique philosophy of player development in this fascinating book. His methodology, along with his high-energy teaching style has consistently produced dynamic, creative, attacking players. Just as his coaching is a careful balance of reason and passion, so is his whole approach to the game; quite simply, he grows better players who make better teams. His players have impacted NCAA Div.1 programs and are now poised to impact MLS."

Sean Holmes - Head Coach - Drake University - Nationally Ranked 2004 & 2005 - Region II ODP Staff Coach - Three Players Drafted By MLS In Last Two Years

"I attended one of Andy's practice sessions in the Fall of 2004. I watched his two U11 girl’s teams practicing. I have never seen such a large group of 10 year old girls where every player had such advanced dribbling and shooting technique under pressure."

Jeff Tipping - National Soccer Coaches Association of America Director of Coaching. Previously Assistant Coach for the U.S. Women's National Team and Head Coach at Muhlenberg College

“My first-hand experience with Ryan Raybould, a Legends-trained player who plays professionally with Kansas City Wizards in MLS, was evidence that Andy’s methods are effective and long-lasting. Ryan was an All-Ivy selection for us at Yale and an industrious and creative big play performer for all four years. The Legends program clearly developed a high level of competitiveness, field savvy and technical excellence in his game. Andy’s book enthusiastically and effectively challenged my long-held mainstream coaching notions about how to develop creative and skilled players.
I incorporate his methods in my college training and encourage coaches at all levels who are truly looking to bring out the very best in their players to do the same.”

Brian Tompkins – Head Coach Yale University Men’s Team

smile Andy


Edited by AndyBarney (11/15/09 10:30 AM)

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#62424 - 11/15/09 10:18 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: AndyBarney]
mude Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 387
Perhaps a different discussion, but because so much talk of skills and passing, I thought it might be appropriate here. I am interested in how to develop great passers.

Confident dribbling, etc. is critical. It is clearly critical for great passers. A player must be comfortable with the ball, able to protect it in order to create time and space while scanning the field or even making the obvious simple play. I get that. So, no need to tell me that being a great dribbler enables great passers. Conceptually correct, but often not the case in practice.

Passing seems to be a very underappreciated art. It seems to be viewed as something that can be learned "later" and is somehow not as "skilled" or "practiced."

There are clearly some very talented passers. These kids are confident with the ball, keep their head up, have a MUCH better sense of timing, angles and generally better understanding of the movement of the game.

How did they get this way? Is it just stronger natural talent or a different personality that does not need to be the center of attention constantly? Or, is it something that must be taught at an early age like other skills.

I have watched some of the very strongest dribblers/athletes that really miss the point when it comes to passing. Beating someone 1v1 is great (particularly if they are the last defense). But, many seem to do it everywhere without purpose. It is a little bit impressive I guess, but it would be so much better if they used their skills and instantly scanned the field in order to be dangerous rather than "impressive."

I suspect really good passing is quite a bit harder to teach than dribbling. Dribbling/moves requires tons of repetition and is absolutely important. Great passers require a confidence/vision/game smarts that is harder to explain/teach. Again, is this easy to develop later in life? Possible, but I suspect not for most kids.

This is not meant to diminish dribbling. I have a kid that spent a couple of years with the Legends at one time. I believe in some of the concepts. But, I think there is an underappreciation for really good passers (generally) - not just a quick touch pass, etc., but really having the vision to be dangerous.

Great dribblers are often like young guitar players. They love to play fast and show off, but often don't play great music.

Next - defense and how it often underappreciated as an all-over-the-field skill rather than just for defenders. Why do some of "kings-of-the-dribble" decide it is not worth their effort and easily get beat by other dribblers? lol.

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#62426 - 11/15/09 10:35 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: mude]
AndyBarney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1684
Mude

Great questions!

I came from a very traditional team/integration approach to playing and coaching soccer, therefore it took many years of intense sports study to understand that individual pursuit of soccer excellence relies on taking ever greater risks and continually stepping outside of ones’ comfort zones. In one of the strange contradictions of life and sport this is a vital pre-requisite to developing incredible team unity and harmony. Nowadays Legends coaches spend years developing very independent risk takers who later become a harmonious part of a much more talented team, (team of brilliance), than when team unity and harmony was the initial focus.

'Felicidad' - happiness - is a word Ronaldinho uses often in conversation. He was born in 1980 in a working-class district in Porto Alegre, in the south of Brazil, the youngest of three children. His father, João de Assis Moreira worked in the shipyards. “I loved dribbling as a boy. The way we used to play, in the street, was no good for anything of course. If you're playing for five hours you don't want to score goals all the time and I loved dribbling. I could score a goal, but I preferred to dribble.”
Ronaldinho

Later on we concentrate more on team unity and harmony. In this team “combination play” phase much time is spent teaching our players to work in harmonious units and to improve their focus on how to penetrate in tandem with teammates, while continuing to use deception and improvisation to beat players in dribbling situations. This first individual and later team emphasis, is very much how traditional educational philosophy works. However, because there is no team emphasis to confuse the issue, it is much easier to support in an individual environment such as the classroom or swim team. First the “Training Soccer Legends” method centers on developing a technically, physiologically and psychologically strong, capable, independent individual. This is because our experience has shown us that, when we focus on team building before the child has developed independence with the ball, the long-term result is complete dependence on teammates. Players trained in this “pass and receive” manner fail to develop the ability to make the big plays that differentiate them from the masses that refuse to take the risk and responsibility to make great things happen. Life mirrors this because it is those who have either the genetic or learned confidence to step up and attempt the big play that will eventually become leaders.

“Be brave enough to live creatively. The creative is the place where no one else has ever been. You have to leave the city of your comfort and go into the wilderness of your intuition. You can't get there by bus, only by hard work, risking, and by not quite knowing what you're doing. What you'll discover will be wonderful: yourself.”
Alan Alda

smile Andy

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#62428 - 11/15/09 10:54 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: Jo King]
AndyBarney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1684
Jo

As has been discussed in other parts of this thread/forum we made some structural and support mistakes between 2 & 5 years ago. We fixed these errors. They taught us how to be better but cost us some of our more experienced teams & better players.

As a club we added over 20 teams last summer. We also grew significantly the summer before. This means that many of our current Legends teams aren't yet displaying mature dribbling skills. Too many players are relatively new to the approach for this to occur. When our current players have been with us for between 3-8 years you will see excellent deceptive dribbling and finishing skills from all those players.

Every Legend plaers and team's current dribbling performance will reflect the amount of time that specific individual or team has spent in our program.

I hope this clarifies why some of our players aren't
Quote:
the best "ball handlers" in the world


smile Andy

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