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#84762 - 02/18/12 05:45 PM Re: club mergers... [Re: reason]
skiddie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 09/23/09
Posts: 354
Ok so if this merger does take place, then I wonder what happens to the girls side "top" ECNL teams...for example, the BVSC ECNL merged with the KFCF girls--I just don't see it taking place...too many egos involved: instead I see for this example, the top KCFC team staying 'top' for ECNL purposes, while the BVSC ECNL team turning into the MRL team (or not).
Sorry, I'm just really skeptical about a true "blend" of teams...I see them staying pretty much the same and just ranking within based on the latest successes*

*latest successes = on the girls side U14 and up, KCFC has a MUCH stronger pool of girls presently than BVSC girls U14 and up. In this case, KCFC would not be benefitting very much by taking on consistently weaker teams. Check the records in MRL and ECNL and the data show this to be true.

It may be a different case for the younger girls, or for the boys' side.

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#84763 - 02/18/12 08:50 PM Re: club mergers... [Re: skiddie]
bleddry Offline
member

Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 177
I have to say on the face of it, I don't like the idea of this. I would go further and say after talking about this with some other parents this weekend and getting their kids/players opinions on the matter, one thing that both sides may be overlooking is the fact that allot of these players on both sides have spent a good deal of their youth despising the other side, now they are going to be asked to welcome in these players at the cost of loosing some of their teammates...some are simply not happy about the thought of that.

I guess it does make sense. KCFC has ECNL on the girls side, and after looking at the results from this past year, the BVSC side as a club did not show to well in that setting, and BV has the equivalent locked down on the boys side of town with it's connections to Sporting, so this does bring together the most successful boys and girls sides in the city. As some earlier posters pointed out though this experiment has already been attempted in St. Louis with Gallagher and Busch, and the result was the club loosing whole teams in the process that did not want to be apart of the ensuing chaos. It has turned out to be a good decision for those teams and players that left.

I think something happens, regardless of intentions when you move from being a club like KCFC, successful but not so big that you loose the sense of closeness as a club or a team, and then combining with a club the size of BV, that already is known for treating players in some circumstances as cows through the gates.

I would hope this is not a done deal yet and Huw and the boys will go back to the parents and the kids and get some feedback from them first before they do this. In my opinion they currently have a better product. I hope that all the money does not make them lose sight of what they have worked so hard for over all these years. I know allot of players are scared they will lose a place they have worked so hard over the years to secure on a team, over politics or the changes that are inherent in merges like this.

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#84764 - 02/18/12 09:15 PM Re: club mergers... [Re: Keep It Fun]
Sokker Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 205
Originally Posted By: Keep It Fun
Some of you must have attended the Parker Brothers school of economics. At least then a few would have a "Clue".
Consolidating talent is one thing.
On the other hand there's a fine line between cornering the market, and a a monopoly.
One need only look across the state at the fairly recent SLSG merger. The quality of play in some instances by their teams has diminished. Some coaches pulled the top teams/players out of the club so as not to be inundated by the bureaucracy, and internal politics.
There's been some real nastiness in the past amongst the coaching community. Now it's about to get uglier.
Honestly, do people really believe creating a more established hierarchy is good for the players? You have no idea how glad I am that all my children are nearly beyond youth soccer age. It's really mindboggling that an entire industry can be based upon kids playing a game. I was completely flabbergasted at the number of booths by companies piggybacking on the sport at the coaches' convention. What an amazing display of the human condition, dozens staffing the booths sitting around like "wallflowers" just hoping someone will pay attention to them long enough to reach into their pocketbook.
The TV was on yesterday, and I had occasion to hear Pat Sajak interview the Wheel if Fortune guests as to their occupation. It was newlywed week, so there were six people in all.
Their occupations,
Nurse;
teacher;
911 Operator/dispatcher;
Developmental therapist;
Accountant;
Strategist (honestly, what the heck is that? I think that's just another name for my current position as professional slacker).

Every one a service provider. Not a one producing or creating anything. No wonder our economy is so fragile.
I've listed them in what I consider to be skilled in something that's actually useful to the human condition.
At least none of them listed their occupation as soccer coach.
Guess where they'd fall on the list? Not much above (or would it be?) my current occupation. Perhaps we're better off as a whole if we pay some people to do absolutely nothing so they don't screw up anything meaningful.
Don't get me wrong. Obviously I love the game, and sports in general or I wouldn't be on this forum, or participating in any manner, but the tail is now wagging the dog. If something isn't done to put things in perspective, then your kids will hate their coach, they'll hate the game, and they'll hate you.
Good luck everyone.


we need to ask, what is the goal? Even if your child is the best soccer player in the Midwest (competing against 20% of the Midwestern population of children). Women's Nat'l Team (?) then figure out that it takes SI Swimsuit issue or Dancing w/ the Stars to make some money? $100K a year for 10 years with a MLS team while giving up training for a better job in an industry that adds value to America aka a service job that really matters, or making a product that matters?

Us parents should ask all clubs in the area merge together, and let's hire a team of 10 independent, unbiased, and knowledgeable coaches who don't know each other or any of the parents or kids to select an A team, B team, C team, ......., Z team. And be done with the crap so we can have our kids focus on their education. America is slipping because of skewed priorities.

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#84765 - 02/18/12 09:23 PM Re: club mergers... [Re: bleddry]
fac40mil Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/23/10
Posts: 27
Loc: KS
Yes bleddry I second that- couldnt have said it better. We left BV Stars last year U-11 G b/c it just felt too big and cold there were alot of great kids/ parents but most parents felt same... we went to KCFC and have been very happy.... like the community feel...have to agree with rivalry we got as cold reception at first from KCFC parents b/c BV was quote a "puppy mill" club....yeah the div 3/4/5/6/7 teams arent too "competitive".... but its somewhere in between with some good also. I have a 5 yr I just old enrolled in BVSC future stars so im not a hater. it is a good club I just like to have the choice of being a part of the "parts" I think are best w each club. Like Legengs for younger ages -or a good base... (sorry I went there, just the messenger )At first blush would not welcome this.... but hey no bodys asking me right?!?

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#84770 - 02/19/12 05:19 PM Re: club mergers... [Re: fac40mil]
student of game Offline
member

Registered: 03/30/10
Posts: 167
Its sad but the parents should have a voice in this, But they probably won't.

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#84772 - 02/19/12 07:25 PM Re: club mergers... [Re: student of game]
Kaka Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 2316
I don't have any inside knowledge, but this merger would be about KCFC securing a training facility. The GSI complex is not going to happen in this economic environment. Unless somebody wants to plunk down $20 million bucks out of pocket. Not too many of those guys running around.

So KCFC gets a training complex and they start to mingle teams together. And coaches argue and people split off into micro clubs. Nothing is really changing. Except KCFC gets a first class training facility.

And they could run their own leagues at OP with that many kids. Wow I forgot about the soccer economics. A bigger slice of the pie.

Smaller clubs will always have some good teams, because not everyone likes big clubs.

Now having done the training field scramble for years with my kids, I can see the appeal of paying a club where you know they always have the same great training facility. We burnt out multiple GPS units trying to find all the weird places we use to practice.

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#84774 - 02/19/12 08:39 PM Re: club mergers... [Re: student of game]
TAFKAVL Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/23/09
Posts: 1152
Loc: Slums of Blue Valley
Originally Posted By: student of game
Its sad but the parents should have a voice in this, But they probably won't.


Parents do have a say in it. When your interests and the club's don't coincide, you write your check to someone else.

The only thing constant is change.

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#84775 - 02/19/12 08:42 PM Re: club mergers... [Re: TAFKAVL]
TAFKAVL Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/23/09
Posts: 1152
Loc: Slums of Blue Valley
Where have all the Stars-hatin' KCFC blue-bleeders gone from the forum? They should be in full denial mode by now.

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#84779 - 02/20/12 09:29 AM Re: club mergers... [Re: ]
Proff Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/13/11
Posts: 283
Why all the H8? My father was more like Obama than like Romney. Obama certainly "pulled himself up by his bootstraps" as so many folks are so fond of saying is the measure of "Americanism". My father, who was born in a family where having a pair of shoes was not guaranteed - despised career politicians who were born to millions and knew nothing but privelege. As a small business owner he struggled under the ideologies of the Reagan republicans, but he still voted for them.

I'd say the same for a dew republicans - like Boehner perhaps, who also raised himself from an average childhood, although he had certain familial and sociocultural advantages that Obama did not. Still - I respect the path he traveled to get where he is. What was that???? Yes - I RESPECT both Boehner and Obama. In the same sentence.

This relates to this merger - because we have become a nation so quick to judge that we can't see any middle ground. You either love Obama or hate him, you love Mit Romney or you hate him. You love BVSC or you think it is hades.

The truth is more complex than that. People aren't wonderful or horrible. Everyone is a blend of things you would like and things you would not.

Both BVSC and KCFC have some assets and resources that are superior. Both have some drawbacks. My question would be...what would the best blend look like? How can they overcome their faults and emphasize their positives? As parents of players at various levels - what kind of club would you want your kid to grow up in?

I respect the efforts of both clubs in different areas. I just hope that their combined identity is one of integrity, player development, coach development, and community involvement. I don't mind if the coaches make a decent check for the work they do. I don't mind if the club turns a profit, as long as they reinvest in the business and the area.

My concerns are:
1) that teams are not forced in to cookie cutter programs that may not suit the development needs of that particular group of players (such as being forced to play futsal).
2) that players within an age group have upward mobility and aren't simply "pegged" at their current division by coaches and unable to move up.
3) that coaches are treated fairly under a transparent structure so they feel free to become emotionally invested in their teams and players.
4) And lastly - given the very large number of teams - that coach development becomes a priority, and that no team's coach is overlooked simply because they are D6, or given a free pass because they are D1. They will need mentoring programs, in house continuing education, technical directors with a small enough number of teams that they can visit practices and interact with teams, etc. They must BUILD the next generation of national championship coaches.



Others?


Edited by Proff (02/20/12 09:34 AM)

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#84780 - 02/20/12 11:21 AM Re: club mergers... [Re: Proff]
bleddry Offline
member

Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 177
Kaka- I think you are right. The only benefit here to KCFC is the OPSC. I can think of no other reason this makes sense to them.
Proff , If this does go through, I would hope that you are right and those are things that happen, but I think we all know that even with the best of intentions, this is probably not going to happen. Coaches are humanís and try as they might no one is going to let anything get between them and a team/player they consider a meal ticket in terms of actually money , or notoriety. It is sad to say, but in the instance of all the div 1 teams throughout the clubs the teams and coaches will stay the same, and upward mobility will stay pretty limited. The lower level teams may see a bunch of shuffling, and I imagine those kids may be the kids that hate it the most.
The only benefit I can see to BVSC is the quality of coaches and girls teams they will be picking up. I mean lets face it, they have to be a little embarrassed by their showing in ECNL .
What is this new club going to be called? IS BVSC going to force KCFC into the round robin coaching approach that a lot of people donít like? How are tryoutís going to be handled? Who will be the DOC, and who is going to be the actual head of the club? Lots and lots of questions here. I actually heard rumors over the weekend that Futura FC , in the Northland was getting pulled into this merger via KCFC as well. Any truth to that? That would pretty much give them coverage all over the city. True or not it has a lot of people talking on both sides of the fence. Would be interesting to hear from somebody who actually knows whatís going on.

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