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#60470 - 10/15/09 07:48 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: Keep It Fun]
aclifton Offline

Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 330
Loc: Kansas City
I'm sorry, wrong term. This isn't about paid coaches vs volunteer coaches. It is about good coaching and most rec coaches.

Less gifted should only have rec coaches who know very little about the game or how it should be coached?

Again, I have nothing against rec coaches and them volunteering their time. Without them, I'd never have started playing as it is for most players across the country. My issue is with the elitest attitude that if a kid isn't athletic they shouldn't get professional coaching.

I've seen way too many rec kids playing defense on the top of their box and not moving because that is what the coach required. Or booting the ball upfield as their dad yells "boom". We've all seen it... smile But again, if the kid isn't athletically gifted they should be taught the game like that?

If my kid loved singing, was improving, and was gaining the benefits the extra curricular activities provide then yes, I would pay for singing lessons.

I think the elitest attitude of "if my kid isn't good, I'm not going to provide good training" is a really sad way to look at life/parent. frown

TFan/KIF, I'm not boxing you in that corner, perhaps you didn't see that perspective from your post.

Edited by aclifton (10/15/09 08:35 AM)

#60479 - 10/15/09 09:39 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: aclifton]
Fred_Norris Offline

Registered: 06/16/07
Posts: 137
" ...This isn't about paid coaches vs volunteer coaches. It is about good coaching and most rec coaches ..."

" ... My issue is with the elitest attitude ..."

Hmm, interesting take Sancho. arguing against elitism while assuming an elitist attitude?

I'm not boxing you in that corner, perhaps you didn't see that perspective from your post!

smile Fred

#60480 - 10/15/09 09:40 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: aclifton]
Keep It Fun Offline

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 2404
Loc: Kansas City, MO
Originally Posted By: aclifton
.....If my kid loved singing, was improving, and was gaining the benefits the extra curricular activities provide then yes, I would pay for singing lessons......

Andrew, when was the last time you were at a karaoke bar?

Reminds me of a quip I use when someone spontaneously breaks into song.

KIF - "What'd you do with that money?"

songster - "What money?"

KIF - "The money you'd set aside for singing lessons."

Maybe that tone deaf person can take lip syncing lessons, and do an Ashley Simpson impersonation. Personally I think Lisa's saxophone playing is much better. "doh"

Ever see the Andy Griffith episode when Barney
(hey, how'd I work "Andy" "Barney" into this post?)
wanted to sing the solo with the church choir, and Andy had him sing real soft into the dead microphone as the guy with the booming baritone voice belted it out backstage?

I guess you could use a similar approach to coaching the athletically challenged to play soccer. Worth every penny I'm sure.

How will that kid feel when, after all the time, effort, and expense of paid coaching, they still can't make their HS JV team over the speedy toe poker?

Well it's all about having fun.
There's always co-ed indoor.

#60484 - 10/15/09 10:08 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: aclifton]
TorresFan Offline

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 36
I have never said that only the 'genetically gifted" deserve coaching. But parents paying good money for professional coaching when their child is 'slow, unathletic" (Andy's words, not mine) is ridiculous. Would you encourage your child to become a gymnast if they are going to be 6 ft tall? Of course not. You'd encourage him/her to be a football/volleyball/basketball player. To say otherwise is disingenuous. Like KIF's example of a tone deaf person paying for singing lessons. For a parent to steer their child toward something where they have a very limited chance for success is poor parenting.

There are plenty of rec soccer coaches who can and do fabulous jobs with kids. While maybe they can't drone on and on endlessly about their philosophies, they provide countless children an excellent environment to maximize their capabilities.

I have personally coached multiple sports at both the rec and competitive level. The kids I coached all got substantial playing time, were taught the correct way to play that sport, improved their abilities, had a good time, and won a lot of games. Now while I can't post an alumni list of those players who have attended college (nor would I want to) these kids got excellent sporting experiences. And they didn't pay me a dime. A win-win for everyone involved.

#60487 - 10/15/09 10:40 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: TorresFan]

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 123
Loc: North Kansas City

How many of your current older teams will play in college or seek to play at a higher level (U16, 17 & 18’s)? I don’t see that your club has many high school teams, but you persistently use your “alumni list” to show you once had good teams?

There are big successful clubs in the area that have players playing in college, from these top U18 teams, 70 or 80% go on to play in college.

Legends approach - Quantity vs Quality?

#60497 - 10/15/09 11:49 AM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: AndyBarney]
offended Offline

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 8
Don't most KC clubs have options for less talented players who want to play premier soccer?

BVSC - have many teams in every age group - rec and D1, D2, D3, D4 premier
KCFC - has a tiered system
Rush - has Nike and swoosh teams as well as a rec program
KC Select - has many teams
Futura - has many teams

These clubs put players on teams with equal abilities. I think most clubs will admit that they do this to provide a place to play for all of the kids AND to increase revenue to their club. The Legends of course only do it for the benefit and well-being of the child. The increase in revenue is not a factor at all.

What is it again the Legends do differently?

Coach 1v1s? No, all the other clubs do that too. But here's a difference - other clubs don't "abuse" their players by neglecting to expose them to other elements of the game.

Don't cut players? No, they "move" players to the appropriate team - just like the other clubs. When our club moves a player from team A to team B it is called a "cut" but not to so for the Legends because they don't cut players they just move players to the right level.

Have the only coaching staff of really, really, really, really good guys. I bet other clubs also think they have good people coaching in their clubs. I also bet other clubs have coaches who can think for themselves.

Provide equal playing time? Perhaps this is where they are different. Most of the current COMPETITIVE clubs determine playing time based on performances at the OLDER age groups. I'm sure that all clubs have equal playing time for all younger teams. I would also say that all the clubs provide equal playing times for their lower level teams. In all probability unequal playing time is most commonly found among the top teams. Wouldn't it be easier to provide equal playing time in D2 at Heritage rather than in the premier division of the MRL? How many MRL teams does the Legends have? Are they even aware of the MRL subbing rules? Tough to provide equal playing time under those limitations but perhaps the Legends don't have to deal with those concerns.

Here's a difference - the Legends have a leader who is determined to make his "product" sound better by claiming all non Legend coaches ABUSE kids and are only coaching for their own adult benefits.

At one time I believed the Legends had a good program and was a good option for local KC kids. I also think all the other clubs listed above do a great job. The posts on this forum now make me believe the Legends to be the last place a kid should go. They have some good coaches - Brian Roberts and Scott Vermillion in particular. They have other coaches who are still learning but might be decent one day. But the leadership of the club is out of control.

#60499 - 10/15/09 12:04 PM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: offended]
paul12 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 2810
Loc: Northern Virginia
For the record, I'm all for genetic discrimination.

Also for the record, I agree with whoever said this was one of the dumbest tangents on which this rambling conversation has wandered.

#60500 - 10/15/09 12:09 PM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: paul12]
aclifton Offline

Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 330
Loc: Kansas City

My opinion isn't elitist. smile

To say that rec coaches (most of which have limited/no soccer background) are as good as club coaches (most of which have extensive soccer background) isn't rational.

Rec coaches (in general) aren't capable of teaching the game as well as club coaches.

#60506 - 10/15/09 12:45 PM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: aclifton]
JimB Offline

Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 454
Coping with being out of contact with a cult-involved child

By Dana Wehle, LMSW

Issues related to separation and loss for parents who are dealing with a cult-involved adult child (to be referred to as "parents") are unique and at the same time similar to some other intense losses, for instance, people lost as a result of 9/11, wartime MIA's and abducted children. Dealing with any of these very difficult situations involves a range of experiences, emotions, and coping styles.

Some of these ideas emerged out of the Cult Hotline and Clinic Family Support Group, which is primarily comprised of parents. For most, the theme of lost dreams and expectations has been central; for some it has been the actual loss of contact with a family member. A main focus of the group has been on identifying, expressing and exploring feelings related to the members' experience of loss on all levels.

Topics addressed here are wellness; the grieving process; and coping strategies. An underlying assumption is that this kind of loss means different things to different people, and not all of the following general principles will fit each person. Hopefully, seeing these ideas will help parents think and talk about their own unique experience. The purpose of offering groups at our clinic, as well as of presenting information on a website, is to help those struggling with this issue realize that they are not alone.

The following common principles draw on ideas presented on the website of the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC).

1. Ideas on Wellness

"Wellness is defined as a condition in which the physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual dimensions of our being are balanced so that we can use our energy effectively in pursuing our goals. Grieving is the process of restoring our energy and affirming our goals. Grieving and wellness may seem unrelated, but unresolved grief often leads to illness and always leads to a decline in wellness. Loss of a loved one upsets the balance and reduces our energy.

"Emotional wellness is dependent on having someone you can talk to without having to apologize for your feelings. Learn how to identify and communicate your feelings to yourself and others, knowing that there is no such thing as a right or wrong feeling. Recognize that whatever you think, feel, question, or believe is acceptable. . . work for balance in yourself in your changing world as you slowly heal".

2. The Grieving Process

"The grieving process is an important stage in your attempt to regain your stability, improve your mental and physical health, and reestablish your normal living pattern. It is a healthy process that aims to balance ones attitude toward a loss of any kind." It is useful to grieve with others.

When people experience loss they are inclined to feel extreme feelings and to think about the loss in extreme terms. In that way, part of the process of grieving and healing is seeing with more complexities. Ideally, the person who has been left can be open to both what was good and what was bad about their connection with the person who has gone. In this case it would be thinking about the totality of the relationship with the cult-involved child. Though it is very important to be able to do this, it is a very difficult thing to do—for many parents this is a long-term process.

There are often four stages of grieving:

&#9702;gradual recovery
Similar to parents dealing with abducted children, parents of children involved with cults may go through these stages many times.

3. Range of feelings

Parents often spend a lot of time remembering conversations and interactions with their child about the cult involvement. They often feel a number of different things when dealing with being cut-off from their child.

DENIAL My son is too smart. He would never get involved in a cult.
ANGER I want someone to expose this group! How can they get away with what they are doing? It's all about control and money. I can't stand it!
ISOLATION Most of the time I feel like no body understands outside of my immediate family. I feel so alone with this.
DEPRESSION Some days I find it really hard to get out of bed.
GRIEF I feel like a lost a big part of me.
GUILT It’s because I didn’t call her enough.
HELPLESSNESS I can’t stand that I can’t do anything as the time goes by.
FEAR I’m so scared about what they are doing to her and her having no way to leave.
SHAME I can’t stand that other people are thinking I wasn’t a good parent because my daughter is in a cult.
HURT We were so close. I feel so rejected. It hurts so bad.

These are typical and normal feelings. We recommend that parents acknowledge and talk about their feelings with others in order to move towards recovery. Denying one’s feelings, blaming others and relentlessly feeling guilty keeps you stuck.

4. Concrete Coping Suggestions

&#9702;Talk about loss with other family members. Don’t make it a taboo subject. It is important to keep in mind, however, that some people do want to be asked, and some don’t.
&#9702;Seek out parent support groups.
&#9702;Bring the needs of other family members into balance with your own and those of the cult-involved child.
&#9702;Write in a journal
&#9702;Celebrate birthdays, holidays, and other special events by creating new traditions. Other family members need this continuity and so do you even if it’s hard to do. Plan ahead. Go on a trip. For birthdays, for instance, eat cake and open presents in the morning with children in the family.
&#9702;Strive for mental wellness by learning to keep a positive image your child in your mind.
&#9702;Helping others can be beneficial to you.
&#9702;Do whatever gives you inner peace. Some use religion, prayer, relaxation techniques.

Moving Forward/ Creation of Continuity

There is no right or wrong way to go through the process of loss. It is important to maintain an internal connection with your child to help deal with the reality of the separation. Figuring out your own ways to maintain that connection is an essential part of the process.

The following was written about Anna Freud regarding the loss of her well-known father:

"If she moved forward with her life, she would ‘lose’ her father. If she clung to him, or wished to join him, she was renouncing her own life. ...She realized she could find a way to bring her relationship with her father forward... She realized she could not bring back the past, but she could use it to animate and guide her present and future." (Gaines, 1977)

1. Loss through Death v. Loss of Connection with a Child who is Alive

When we speak of loss here it is not necessarily about death. It may be complete loss of contact, or it may be the loss of the quality and/or frequency of the relationship you had with your child before the cult involvement. This often involves the loss of dreams and expectations.

An added difficulty in coping with the loss of a living child compared to the actual death of a child is that it may be harder to find closure. The challenge of coping with a loss continues throughout the life-span. It changes meaning at different stages of your child's life and stages of your own life. This is actually true for any loss. What is different for parents of cult-involved children is the possibility and therefore the hope that the situation could change.

Parents need to both mourn and stay open, and even be active.

2. Types of Private (Internal) and Shared (External) Rituals

Creating rituals to stay connected to your child is one important way of taking care of yourself. When someone dies there are common religious mourning rituals to partake in if one chooses. In the case of losing a child to a cult, the rituals need to be creatively developed. Perhaps you have developed rituals of your own. Parents in our support group repeatedly say that without the ritual of sharing with others in this group they would not have been able to move on with their lives. One couple has called it a monument to their daughter with whom they have no contact.

Feeling isolated is very common when dealing with the type of personal agony we have been discussing. We stress the importance of finding support and creating rituals to maintain a connection with your child.

A quote from NCMEC sums it well: "work for balance in yourself in your changed world as you slowly heal."

Questions to think about

1.Different people have different grieving needs. For YOU, in what ways has letting go helped, in what ways staying connected? What type of private and shared rituals have you developed?

2.Do you feel that if you move forward is it giving up on a person? If you stay connected, are you stuck?

3.For those who have been dealing with this problem for a long time, how have different life stages for both you and your child changed your experience of your loss? How have your expectations been affected?

4.Have you been experiencing isolation in relation to your loss? In what ways have you tried to cope with that the isolation that this problem often incurs?


&#9702;Gaines, Robert, 1977. "Detachment and Continuity, the Two Tasks of Mourning", Contemporary Psychoanalysis, Vol. 33, No.4 (1977), pp. 549-571

&#9702;National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, www.missingkids.com

This article is based on a presentation given in June 2002 by Dana Wehle, LMSW and Arnold Markowitz, LCSW at the AFF Annual Conference in Orlando, FL.

#60507 - 10/15/09 12:54 PM Re: Soccer as a Vehicle for Learning Life Lessons [Re: JimB]
JimB Offline

Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 454
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Radar Weekly. Serious data for cautious Christians

July 24, 2005.

The magic of Alpha and Harry Potter Christians

Last Saturday children lined up at book stores across the world just before midnight dressed as witches and warlocks anxiously awaiting
the latest story on witchcraft. Parents never allow their kids to be out at midnight except for this special occasion to get the latest
Harry Potter book, the kids were in awe of the mystery of the book and being allowed so late in the dark. The U.K. author is expected
to make over 2 billion dollars on this one.

Northview and other Canadian Churches have their own enchantments - its not one book, its not even the Bible. Its a series of books and videos from the U.K. called The Alpha Course. The course looks Christian at first but on studying it the New Age comes right out. For example,
last week we talked about the "holy spirit " of Alpha. Gumbel claims that the "holy spirit' gave him power surges , at other times
Gumbel claims that surge threw a man across a room while Vineyard Pastor Ellie Mumford ministered. (Southwest London Vineyard Pastor where the popular Winds of worship came from, Brian Doerksen was the music Pastor there at the time).

From reading the Holy Bible one can read that the Holy Spirit is a Person, not a force as the New Agers claim. The Bible calls Him
a "He", a divine Person of the Holy Trinity. As if Alpha wasn't enough, now Northview is thirsting for this "New Wine". New Wine Canada
was called to minster at Northview, though it was a U.K. Pastor who preached. The teaching was a yawner for the most part on love and
forgiveness...but dont think that's where it stops. Just as the first date never tells all of their dark secrets upfront, New Wine Canada
has some awful fermentation that is poisonous toxic.

New Wine Canada is a subsidiary of New Wine International. So what exactly is New Wine about anyways?


New Wine ministries was started by David Pytches, also of the U.K. His main objective was to see "spontaneous expansion" of the
Church through the gifts and power of the 'holy spirit".

The question begging to be asked is what does Pytches think this power is?
Well you are about to go through another dark door of the Holy Trinity Brompton, which offers Pytches books (mysteriously up until Thursday
one could find his name easily in the HTB bookstore, now I can only find his wife's name)

Pytches and the Kansas City Prophets.

David Pytches defends the Kansas City Prophets in his book ,"Some said it thundered". The Kansas City Prophets are a cultist group
, the main men of the movement are Mike Bikle and Paul Cain. David Pytches description of the "holy spirit" is
a new age energy force:

From http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain5.htm

"During a Spiritual warfare conference in Anaheim Feb.1988 “On his (Paul Cain) first visit to Anaheim (to visit John Wimber) in February 1988 Paul saw powerful lights across the room and a strong sense of the presence of God was accompanied by revelations in the word of knowledge. On that occasion an expensive video camera was short-circuited. This was battery operated and no plugged into any outlet. The next night the telephone system was blown out though no one was on the phone at the time.” (Some Said It Thundered, David Pytches, p.52)

Paul Cain claims that the power and the anointing he has is so strong, when he speaks they experience tremendous power surge. Actually all the Kansas city prophets have such power that it affects the environment around them. This is hardly to be equated with the holy Spirit but more like a magnetic force that interrupts other power sources.

Ptyches writes in his book some say it thundered, Mike Bickle told me of a particular night that week when Paul had been prophesying and the power of God came down mightily. Everyone began to sense the “manifest presence of God” powerfully in the room. ... A solemn awe fell over the whole place. Some simply remained sitting still in their seats. Others tiptoed the aisles in trembling silence. Suddenly there was the sound of sirens as two fire engines screeched to a standstill right outside the center. The doors burst open and a number of uniformed firemen with hoses and axes demanded to know where the fire was. Mike shook his head, hardly able to cope with such an abrupt and earthly “landing.” “There is no fire,” he said. “Oh, yes, there's a big one somewhere! Down at the station all the signals possible are going for this place. The circuits have blown and set off the alarm system. There are signs of a tremendous power surge,” said the leading fireman. Hardly waiting in his frenzied rush to find the fire. ... After the meeting Paul turned quietly to Mike and apologized. “I am so sorry about the fire scare. I should have warned you that that does sometimes happen when there is a lot of divine power about!” (Some Said It Thundered, p.52)"


The nice sermon of love and forgiveness isnt what New Wine is all about, you must dig deeper then that trite sermon to find out what is the real message these men are trying to get across, eventually it will. Everyone should do their own research on this New Wine, starting with
the founder- David Pytches of the U.K.


July 17, 2005

Fresh Fire ...and now, New Wine.

New ministries that focus on electrical feelings from the "Holy Spirit" calling this anointing "Fresh Fire" and now
they say the "Holy Spirit" is getting Christians drunk with New Wine. These ministries are nothing but frauds,
claiming to know deeper truths of God yet all the while the teachings are opposite to the light of the Bible. These
teachings are darkness yet claiming to be ministers of light (2 Cor. 11)

First, these men are teaching a different "Holy Spirit". Their "Holy Spirit" is a energy flow that disturbs you at
the Alpha "Holy Spirit Weekend". The Bible refers to the Holy Spirit as God, the Spirit. So what God do you have inside
you? Is it the popular "spirit" taught by Alpha or the one that the Bible describes. As you can see, this is very crucial to
where you are with God, the real God. The real Holy Spirit is a He, a Person:

He teaches:

Luke 12:12 - Show Context " For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."

John 14:26 - Show Context "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you."

Heb 9:8 - Show Context "the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing."

2Pe 1:21 - Show Context "for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." (Note holy men spoke for God as they were moved, they did not do bizarre manifestations on the floor)

He comforts:

Ac 9:31 - Show Context "Then the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had peace and were edified. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, they were multiplied."

There are more ministries of the Holy Spirit but before one can define them further that person must know that the Holy Spirit is not an energy
force as the new agers teach. Lets see what Nicky Gumbel's definition of the Holy Spirit is:

Nicky Gumbel, talks about Ellie Mumford in the Alpha video series 3, talk 9. (Edited out for Canadians)
He recalls how someone was THROWN ACROSS THE ROOM when Ellie invited the "Holy" spirit to move:

"Ellie Mumford told us a little bit of what she had seen in Toronto...it was obvious that Ellie was just dying to pray for all of us.. then she said 'Now we'll invite the Holy Spirit to come.' and the moment she said that one of the people there was thrown, literally, across the room and was lying on the floor, just howling and laughing....making the most incredible noise....I experienced the power of the Spirit in a way I hadn't experienced for years, like massive electricity going through my body... One of the guys was prophesying. He was just lying there prophesying. . ."

Gumbel recalls his power encounter anointing from John Wimber (a Vineyard pillar)

"A man called John Wimber came to speak at the church … After the talk a very nice American came over to me and said … "Well, is there anything else that you would like us to pray for?" So I said, "Well, what I would really like to pray for is the power of the Spirit in my life" … After he had been praying for about 30 seconds, all I can say is I felt this incredible power - it was like 10,000 volts going through my body. In fact, it was so powerful that after a bit I couldn’t take it any more but I think he had only just got onto the ministry team because he only had one prayer and it was "More power, Lord!" And every time he prayed this prayer, the power increased! So after a bit I couldn’t take it any longer and I started praying against him! I started saying, "No more power, Lord!" But he carried on praying, "More power, Lord!" So eventually there was this shouting match going on in the middle of the room. John Wimber … said, "Take that one out!" So they carried me out through the French windows! And as I was being carried out John Wimber said, "God is giving to that man power to tell people about Jesus Christ". And I have often looked back at that as a very significant moment in my life."

A sinner attending Alpha will hear such a weak gospel that it is highly likely he can make it through the course without being saved.

What "Holy Spirit" is Gumbel listening to? Gumbel wants Catholics and all Churches to join in unity as one Church. The Catholics
are not teaching the gospel, which the Holy Spirit inspired. So any guesses at why Alpha is such a popular movement today?
It is part of the devil's scheme to get a one world religion so that those who hold to the true gospel are out numbered and
counted as hate mongers and trouble makers. The Former Arch Bishop of Canterbury , Carey, claims that we we cannot know for sure that Jesus was resurrected :

"Christians cannot know with the same certainty that He was resurrected." (Carey's book Jesus 2000)

The Bible says if Jesus wasn't raised from the dead then our religion is worth nothing and we are to be pitied above all men for
believing a lie. Guess what Church chose Carey to be the top President? Anglican. Guess what Church Nicky Gumbel is a Curate of? Anglican. Anglicans are united with Catholics with the alliance of "Anglican Roman Catholic International Commission (ARCIC)"

If the top dog can be an unbeliever, then for sure the Curates can spew any nonsense they want without retribution. Gumbel is also the head CEO of
the Alpha course and Northview Church is hosting the all Canada Alpha leaders seminar. I used to look up to Northview leaders as if God ordained them but after sending warning after warning I see that they are puppets put in place and as long as they nod their heads as Yes men then they are safe and comfortable in their seat. They have very little fear of God and even thumb their nose at truth. I should have never took them seriously.

Psalms 119:98-100 98 "You, through Your commandments, make me wiser than my enemies; For they are ever with me. 99 I have more understanding than all my teachers, For Your testimonies are my meditation. 100 I understand more than the ancients, Because I keep Your precepts"

New Wine being served at Northview.

This is just what I have been warning about for almost four years and now it has started. Northview hired a Pastor who visited the Toronto Blessing several times, invited Jack Frost of Shiloh Place ministries where people have fallen and have done strange things on the floor, a wholesale buyout to Alpha and now he has invited New Wine ministries to do a revival meeting at Northview. Upon studying New Wine's web sites there is a strange vagueness about them. They offer books but then you click on the link and you dont get much info just a phone number to call if you want to order. All the connecting links are pro Alpha of course and mostly within the UK, Druidville.

Remember the Bible warns us in 2 Corinthians 11 that the devil's men will look "like angels of light". The only way to tell is to test the doctrine, which Northview vehemently opposes to.

Mark Melluish, a Vicar from the UK, was preaching at the New Wine revival. Stephanie Reddicopp was the singer. I remember one encounter I had
with Stephanie while she was single. When she was still single I was at Northview just after a wedding reception all dressed up and I had one red rose
that was of little use to me as I walked outside to the parking lot. I saw Stephanie and softly said "this is for you" handing her the rose and then walked away.
I dont know if she remembers but it shows that Im not all full of rebuke and nothing else. I could be just as cold as the leaders and not care about truth and where the Church is going but I just cant bring myself to that level. These are the verses the New Wine advocates use:

1 Samuel Chapter 1

9." So Hannah rose up after they had eaten in Shiloh, and after they had drunk. Now Eli the priest sat upon a seat by a post of the temple of the LORD. 10 And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed unto the LORD, and wept sore. 11 And she vowed a vow, and said, O LORD of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thine handmaid, but wilt give unto thine handmaid a man F5 child, then I will give him unto the LORD all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head. 12 And it came to pass, as she continued F6 praying before the LORD, that Eli marked her mouth. 13 Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken. 14 And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee. 15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful F7 spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD. 16 Count not thine handmaid for a daughter of Belial: for out of the abundance of my complaint F8 and grief have I spoken hitherto.

These "men of god" think that Hannah was drunk in the spirit when in fact if she was drunk it would be considered a evil thing as she says in verse 16:

"I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD. 16 Count not thine handmaid for a
daughter of Belial..."

Here is another verse they use:

Acts 2

"7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, "Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs--we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God." 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, "Whatever could this mean?" 13 Others mocking said, "They are full of new wine."

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day"

The context is that the people heard the Apostles speaking in actual country languages and were amazed. They couldnt believe what they were seeing and
some mocked saying they were drunk, which Peter denied. But Randy Clark of the Vineyard (he started the Toronto Blessing) said " I think they were
drunk. They were drunk! Blah blah (acts like a madman while people cheer him on) I gave this tape and many other quotes to the leaders at Northview
before Alpha started there and before Rees was pastor. They ignored the warnings again.

Here is another verse they use:

Ephesians 5:

17 Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,

These "men of god" say - see they were drunk being filled with the spirit. These verses say nothing of this in fact it starts off saying "do not be unwise" then
goes on not to be drunk, which the Bible considers a major sin.

So is there any room in the Bible for acting like a drunk, or being drunk in the spirit? Ill give you Bible verses and the opportunity to listen to God, not men:

1 Corinthians 6:

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, F14 nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 14- are we to act as mad man like the Toronto Blessing?

23 Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

<>33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints... 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

These guys who fall, laugh, act drunk, act like animals are in a different spirit. This really a set up from the devil as he laughs on
watching Christians accept this due to their "no fear" stance of the Gospel. The Bible says God is the author of peace, and wants
the service to be done decently and in order so that unbelievers will not see us as madmen.

They claim that the Holy Spirit causes these manifestations yet all the while shrugging off the only sin that is not forgiven-
The blaspheme of Him. Look up the word blaspheme in the dictionary and then the verses that have to do with that sin that
the devil wants us to commit , with incredible deceit. American Heritage Dictionary meaning of blaspheme:

To speak of (God or a sacred entity) in an irreverent, impious manner.
To revile; execrate. (Brackets theirs-American Heritage dictionary)

Some Christian authorities claim that the unforgivable sin is a ongoing denial of the Holy Spirit's work and the end result will be to never know Jesus as Lord and Savior thus hell is the expected conclusion. Anyone who has read commentaries from popular Christian scholars will admit there are many different interpretations from so called experts, the best way to study the Bible is to take a Vines Greek dictionary, a Strong's concordance and look up the meaning to the verses yourself, with prayer and the intent to know God's truth. Vines and Strongs are not commentaries but dictionaries so you wont have their opinion.

Looking at the passage one should decide- is Jesus talking about an ongoing rejection of the Holy Spirit or.... speaking evil of the Holy Spirit's work? Here is the passages:

Matthew 12:22-37 22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, "Could this be the Son of David?" 24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, "This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons." 25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad. 31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come

Here is another example of an England preacher persauding people to drink this "New Wine":

From johnscotland.org

"working with the Anglican Organization called “Faith in the City”. The project was brought to the attention of the Archbishop of the Church of England, and John’s project became their Flagship. John was presented before the Queen of England and Prince Charles to receive recognition for their work. The Lord brought in an excess of a million dollars from mainly the business sector.

In April of 1994, a prophet called Bobby Connor prophesied a new anointing coming to John & Jean, and in November of 1994, John went up to a prophetic conference in Toronto, Canada. In that conference, the Lord overpowered John with His Holy Spirit and with an anointing of intoxication and drunkenness and John was set apart to be a sign & wonder to the church. John now travels extensively throughout the world, imparting the New Wine of the Holy Spirit to those who are thirsty"

Here is what this New Wine looks like, click this link to see John Scotland in action

I suggest Northview members call for the resignation of all the leaders who supported Alpha or the Toronto Blessing even though they had evidence of
this drunkness and craziness at their meetings.

July 10, 2005

Is the Catholic religion Christian? Well Billy and Franklin Graham seems to think so, Campus Crusade insists on it as well. Chuck Colson
of Prison Fellowship married a Catholic and has persuaded his peers to sign the document "Evangelicals and Catholics Together" which
heralds the common faith the two have. Editors of major Christian magazines accept the Pope as well. (See new stories for info)


Evangelicals who signed the document:

Dr. Gerald L. Bray (Beeson Divinity School)
Dr. Bill Bright (Campus Crusade for Christ)
Dr. Harold O. J. Brown (Trinity Evangelical Divinity School)
Mr. Charles Colson (Prison Fellowship)
Bishop William C. Frey (Episcopal Church)
Dr. Timothy George (Beeson Divinity School)
Dr. Os Guinness (The Trinity Forum)
Dr. Kent R. Hill (Eastern Nazarene College)
The Rev. Max Lucado (Oak Hills Church of Christ, San Antonio, Texas)
Dr. T. M. Moore (Chesapeake Theological Seminary)
Dr. Richard Mouw (Fuller Theological Seminary)
Dr. Mark A. Noll (Wheaton College)
Mr. Brian F. O'Connell (Interdev)
Dr. Thomas Oden (Drew University)
Dr. James I. Packer (Regent College, British Columbia)
Dr. Timothy R. Phillips (Wheaton College)
Dr. John Rodgers (Trinity Episcopal School for Ministry)
Dr. John Woodbridge (Trinity Evangelical Divinity School)

These "great men of God' are about to be put to extreme shame. In the archive there is an article on the Illuminati, the secret society also know
as skull and cross bones that set up the rise of Hitler. Hitler was a devout Catholic. Let me write that again- Hitler was a devout Catholic. Hitler
praying at a rally in Vienna:

Above is a page from the Nazi children's book, Der Giftpilz (The Poisonous Mushroom). The caption reads, "When you see a cross, remember the gruesome murder of the Jews on Golgotha..."

Hitler leaving a Catholic Church

“There has never been anything more grandiose on the earth than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic Church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party.” - Adolph Hitler - (The Nazi Persecution of the Churches" by J.S. Conway - Pgs. 25, 26 & 162)

Adolf Hitler converses with the Papal Nuncio, Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, at a New Year's reception in Berlin. (January 1, 1935)

Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo held a birthday gala for Hitler soon

after this picture was taken. The Archbishops held a birthday gala for Hitler every year until the war ended.
"On February 10, 1939, Pius XI died, at the age of 81. [Vatican Secretary of State Eugenio] Pacelli, then 63, was elected Pope by the College of Cardinals in just three ballots, on March 2. He was crowned on March 12, on the eve of Hitler's march into Prague. Between his election and his coronation he held a crucial meeting with the German cardinals. Keen to affirm Hitler publicly, he showed them a letter of good wishes which began, "To the Illustrious Herr Adolf Hitler." Should he, he asked them, style the Führer "Most Illustrious"? He decided that that might be going too far. He told the cardinals that Pius XI had said that keeping a papal nuncio in Berlin "conflicts with our honor." But his predecessor, he said, had been mistaken. He was going to maintain normal diplomatic relations with Hitler. The following month, at Pacelli's express wish, Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the Berlin nuncio, hosted a gala reception in honor of Hitler's 50th birthday. A birthday greeting to the Führer from the bishops of Germany would become an annual tradition until the war's end."
--- From text excerpted from John Cornwell's "Hitler's Pope" and posted at. http://emperors-clothes.com/vatican/hitlers.htm

Catholic clergy and Nazi officials, including Joseph Goebbels (far right) and Wilhelm Frick (second from right), give the Nazi salute. Germany, date uncertain.
[Photo source, Holocaust Encyclopedia,]

Priests give Hitler salute at a Catholic youth
rally in the Berlin-Neukolln stadium in August 1933.

Croatian Ustashi fuehrer Ante Pavelic giving Nazi salute (far left) with Archbishop Alojzije Stepinac (far right) and other Catholic Church leaders

A Cardinal marches with the German Nazis

A religious leader, apparently Cardinal Michael Faulhaber, marches between rows of SA men at a Nazi rally in Munich.

Croatian Ustashi dictator Ante Pavelic with Franciscan monks. The Franciscan order was active in the genocide against Serbs, Jews and Romanians.

The recent deceased Pope John Paul with Arafat in his younger years:
In the early 1940's, a young Polish salesman, employed by I.G. Farben Chemical Company (manufacturer of cyanide gas) 1 sold cyanide to the Nazis, for use in Auschwitz. He also worked as a chemist manufacturing the cyanide gas that exterminated millions of Jews and other peoples in the very heart of the Auschwitz extermination camp. Fearing for his life after the war, he took refuge in the Catholic church (cult) and was ordained a priest in late 1946. In 1958, he was ordained Poland's youngest bishop. After the thirty day reign and assassination of his predecessor, he assumed the papacy as Pope John Paul II 2 He controlled an organization in America, called the Jewish Federation and one of its many branches, the Cult Awareness Network which kidnaps and "deprograms" Christians and other victims. The Pope's Cult Awareness Network is a continuation of Hitler's "Ministry of Cults" 3 during World War II, designed to destroy Judaism, Christianity and other religions, other than Catholicism. Hitler and his entire staff, including the S.S. were all Catholics. Their desire - a world for Catholics only. Why is the Pope so friendly with the former Muslim leader? If you still have enough awe left to your shock, here is a website for you. Keep
in mind that the Quran devotes an entire Chapter to Mary. The nineteenth Chapter of the Quran is titled "Mary".

The current Pope, Ratzinger:

The current Pope Ratzinger was a Nazi Youth and served as a soldier guarding the BMW plant that was manufacturing warplane

So if Hitler couldnt take the money with him, just where did all that money and treasure go after they were stolen from the Jews?
Its in the Vatican's coffers. Here is a recent court order for Holocaust survivors to pursue stolen money and other belongings:

Just in time for the picking of a new pope, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals decided Monday that Holocaust survivors can pursue the Vatican Bank for profiting from a Nazi puppet regime.

To answer the question, are Catholics Christians....and the answer is NO!. They are deceived by the devil, just as Mormons and
JW's and other false religions who say "Lord Lord" and just as in Matthew Chapter 7 Jesus said that many will come to Him on
Judgment Day and say - Lord we cast out demons, we did miracles, we did good works in your name. Jesus reply: Away from
Me you who work iniquity into everlasting punishment!.

Jesus said that He is the only way into heaven, Catholics say just believe in God and youre saved.
Jesus said hell is an eternal torment, a lake of fire that you cant escape. Catholics teach you can escape hell by paying them money.
Jesus said our good deeds cant save us, they are like filthy rags. Catholics teach that by obeying the sacraments you are saved.
Jesus called His mother by the regular vinacular "women". Jesus told had to scold His Mother even as a boy.
Catholics say Mary is "the Great Mother" and hold her as Divine.
Catholics killed Christians during the reformation , those who left the Roman Church were tortured severely.
Catholics think that Jesus gets crucified again during the mass (transubstantiation) , yet the chapter of Hebrews says Jesus paid the sacrifice once and never again, furthermore Jesus Himself said to do communion in REMEMBERANCE of Him, not as if
He was being crucified again.

Catholics have done and are doing great atrocities in Jesus name, and we as Christians can not go along with their deceit. To side with them shows contempt for the Holy commands of God and allows the world another accusation against Christians that isnt true.

The Jews are the apple of God's eyes. There are few things that pleases God more then to see a Jew come to Him. We as Christians
didnt throw the Law away, rather we know that no one can fulfill the Law and the prophets had talked about Jesus coming. The Jew's dont see that even though the wording of the Messiah is singular, they take it as plural to avoid Christ. Jesus quoted the Old Testament and so does the Apostles. Christians are not against the Torah, rather we know that we can not be good enough for God, for
God is prefect and cant have sin dwell before Him. His Son, Jesus, chose to be "the Lamb of God that takes away our sin". The love that God has for us is great and He demonstrated that clearly. So my Jewish friend, dont look at Christians as the same as Catholics for we are so different as a Jew is to a Gentile. Read Isaiah Chapter 52 to 55 ---the prophet,foretells of Jesus the suffering Servant. Just as the Jews brushed Lamb's blood on the door posts so the angel of death would pass by in Exodus, there is a greater redemption that will cause God's wrath to pass over you on Judgement Day, Jesus paid the price for all your sins on the cross and He arose from the dead after three days. He went up to Glory and said His return will be seen in the skies with thousands of angels for Judgement of the whole world.

The Holocaust was set up by the devil to wipe out Jews and Christians (many Christians were killed aside the Jews too but get little print)
in books) The devil knows that the Jews are the apple of God's eye and want to stab them anyway possible. But they err in that they
dont read the Torah close enough (Isaiah 53 is often ignored by Rabbis for its revelation of the Messiah). True Christians love the Jews, and almost envy them for the love God has published for them in His word. If only they knew the blessings that could be theirs, if they turned to Jesus.

Ill sign off with a warning to all Christians- dont think your Church isnt going to be targeted by a secret satanic group for infiltration,
look at the deceit above this is how it happens. When you laugh at the warnings and love your programs and fellowship more then
truth from God then you have lost the battle from the enemy already. Lets see how this "New wine" ferments at Northview.

July 3, 2005

" If you are in a card game and you dont know who the patsie is, chances are you are the patsie." Warren Buffet

We are in a war with the enemy and you if dont know what his latest schemes are, chances are you have bought one of them.

The Bible warns us to be vigilant against the devil for he prowls around seeking who he can devour next. If you are a Christian
then that enemy is seeking is you. If you have been more concerned with your home, career, vacation and family over
the years then truth from Scripture then there is a good chance you let vigilance slide and accepted evils.

People are deceived by the hords, take Word Faith followers for example. They pay these preachers millions every year, yet
these men are preaching to doctrines of devils, in effect a devil telling him what to say and he says it. That is well documented in this website, they contradict the Bible and are leading many astray from the true faith.

Take athiests, they are all around. How it could be that someone could look at such a complex universe and not admit there is
a Creator? Do they look at a car or a jet plane and think it evolved over time and by chance, with no designer ? An intellegent design
is evidence of an intellegent designer. It is very stupid to say cars or planes evolved by themselves over time, it is more idiotic to say
this about the universe. There is a difference between a lego block and a computer micro-chip... and the structure
of this world is far more complicated then anything we know of. The block head athiests choose to be so. They would rather have apes, time and chance then a Creator for that would be the start of the truth, which they choose not to have. Just a few weeks ago the State of Illinois was reconsidering evolution being taught in their educational Institutes and set up a debate between a well known Athiest and
Creationist...the Athiest backed out calling the debate a waste of time. They always act intellegent but really they are not.

The Bible calls him a fool who says there is no God, and this is percisely what they are...fools.

Christians are beyond this foolishness and walk by the fool who thinks his car, or universe evolved from nothing over time
with no designer. The Christian walks by the fool who is deceived by the devil, worshipping the sun, earth and measuring
energy flows.

We as Christians deal with weightier matters, the truth of God- for we have found the truth of man to be a failure, riddled with lies
and with no solid answers for real life.

The truth of God is complex as is the universe. Beyond this curtain of truth, deeper into it that could never be known by the Athiest,
reveals the One who created what we see. We find more about Him from reading His manual, the Bible, we find out He is
loving, also we know He is judgemental though with a perfect scale of what is right in His mind to base that judgement on. He is
very forgiving as well. He also hates sin. We read that He will punish unrepent evil men in a lake of fire for eternal torment. This
bothers us greatly, yet its true. What is more troublesome to your editor is what He is willing to inflict on his children for correction
and purification, this is bothersome and hard to understand. Look around you, some people have it really bad yet they love Jesus.
We dont like many things that the Bible says but we accept it.

The Bible also gives more insight that there is a evil hord of fallen angels who once served God but were duped by lucifer to
revolt. These evil angels are at war with God's holy angels . They fight in the heavenlies with fierce and sometimes lengthy battles.
The enemy also fights for the minds of humans, which he wins so often. Its very sad. Yes, even the minds of some Christians have
bought some of his schemes. They are very clever and seem good at first.

God does give us a hope in His manual, this war will end in victory for God and those who loved God
and His truth, they will enter heaven for eternal bliss.

The Bible also warns us to watch out for satan's tricks that lure us into a false type of faith. Alpha, promise keepers,
Purpose driven life do not share the same character of the Gospel Jesus preached. Hype, compromise, crowd pleasing
is exactly opposite of what Jesus shared, in fact at one point in Jesus ministry when large crowds were all around Him
He preached such a hard message that almost everyone walked away within minutes. Some said "This is a hard saying
who can hear it". Jesus said if you love your life then you will lose it but if you lose your life then you will find it. Jesus
also said that if you dont deny yourself and take up your cross everyday then you are not His follower.
How's that in comparison to easy Warren's message, or the "just ask Jesus in your heart" quick gospel? The limp
wet noodle gospel of Alpha is so embedded with New Age that its hard to think of the Biblical Jesus or the
seriousness of following Him.

Many Christians trust these programs just as Mr Sinclair who kept asking Mel Gibson for prayer. He would show
up at Mel's Church asking Mel if he could worship with him or at Mel's house asking for prayer. He thought, since Mel made
such a slendid (based on a Nun's vision riddled with errors) movie about God that he could trust Mel and ask for prayer.
Mel filed a court order to keep him away and now he is facing a possible three years in jail. The guy just wanted to pray with Mel!
Well the movie is over, Mel made his millions so keep away.

Christians trust these programs thinking they can get help from them, but like that poor man they find out that once the show
is over dont ask for more. The hype can only be generated so long and the plastic smiles dont last near long enough.

June 26, 2005

Please allow me to talk about Alpha again for a bit. We know from Gumbel's mouth that he loves the Toronto Blessing, even though
they shake, growl act like demons on the ground at that former Toronto Vineyard. The Vineyard are still closely linked to that blessing
even some of their best musicians and speakers still get invited and do workshops there and at other venues. The Toronto Blessing has a
sister city that loves its weird doings on the Church floor, that city is none other then Abbotsford BC Canada which has been more then
accepting of this diabolical movement.

Allow me to remind you that the previous Toronto Vineyard didnt get that "blessing" until some
of its Pastors attended Word Faith seminars where popular false teachers had people on the floor doing weird stuff...they caught the
fire like so many easily do, even Justyn Rees told me that he wouldnt refuse such strange behavior as he thought it to be of God in his email
to me. In what context did Rees say this? Well I warned about a false teacher he was inviting to Northview, Jack Frost. I sent all the elder's
and Pastors an email with details about Frost's ministry with the email titled "...Jack Frost nipping at your door",

Shiloh Place Ministries. On Frost's website he claims people fall down during
his seminars and other bizarre manifestations. This quote from Shiloh Place:

"Others around me began to laugh or cry, and many fell to the ground under the presence of God. As I waited, and then as one of the prayer ministers prayed for me, I felt an unfamiliar warmth spread from deep within me, and a heavy sense of God’s peaceful presence in the midst of the ‘holy chaos’ around me. ... As I yielded to it, I fell backward and a ministry helper gently lowered me to the floor. Suddenly a sense of relief and joy flooded my heart – He had answered my prayer and was showing me His love. I began to laugh and could not stop; and then as the unconditional acceptance of God flooded me, I began to cry. I laughed and cried alternately for over an hour. That conference became a landmark for me, and the doorway to deep and lasting healing. "

That story may seem alright to some, however if you study the Toronto Blessing more closely you will find that they do more then laugh and cry. They
bark and act like animals on the ground. They scream, growl and yell very loud. They claim that the Holy Spirit is doing this, however they should watch what
they say because the only sin not forgiven is to Blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Look up the definition for blaspheme and see if it fits for Toronto Blessing. Frost's minisitry is related to the Toronto Blessing and he does seminars at the Toronto Vineyard and other branches that accept the "blessing" from it.
I asked Rees if he saw anything strange happen at the Jack Frost seminar he attended years ago, he replied no, but if manifestations should
occur then he wouldnt refuse. ( I have a string of emails from Rees here)
What Northview should do is ask all its Elders and Pastors questions on this and other false teachings and movements and then fire those
who would teach or accept those evil doctrines. You might have one or two that are left.

Ill be bold and stand for truth forfeiting my salvation if Im wrong- The Toronto Blessing
manifestations as barking, and other strange behavoir are not of God, most are from the devil.

Back to the Toronto Blessing, it spreads far. The "Pensecola Revival" that has people shaking madly in their pew also started from the
Toronto Blessing here is a web page that documents that.

Will you take the time to study Holy Trinity Brompton and Alpha more seriously? Is your all on the line for Jesus? Really? From what I witness its money,
your mortgage getting paid that is more important. I dont trust Rees' discernment at all, remember in other sermons he has said
that the wise men used Astrology to find the baby Jesus (they used the Bible prophecies, there is a night and day difference. See the Archive for Dec 19 2004)

Justyn also called the dance of an African man named "Machine gun" dancing up and down wildly , Rees called it "perfect praise" , he then had the Nothview Church dance to a children's song right after. Baby steps into the Blessing? Maybe, or not, still its not trust worthy.

An Elder from Northview said that he wouldnt mind if people started to fall on the floor at Northview and the head discernment Elder, Graham
Nickel was given data on Alpha years ago and he still lets it run on, just what kind of discernment is that? This is about as easy as it
gets in spotting the devil working at Toronto Blessing and the Mecca of Alpha- the Holy Trinity Brompton.


The first part of this site will be my story on what I experienced while working for Henry Hinn Ministries in Richmond, B.C. This web site will include important facts on the Alpha Course, its strong connections to the Vineyard's Toronto Blessing. There will be a list of heretical teachers shown that is very long and will be exposed one at a time, some with quotes, wave files, or even video of what has been taught. Your author didn't write this to point fingers and make myself of something in the Church, in fact few people who read this expose really who I am. Rather your author is a willing "pen" used by God. Keep in mind there is no man that is righteous apart from God's grace, including me. This verse should be in all our hearts; "Let God be true and every man a liar". Isn't it true that those who we thought were mighty men of God turned out to be just normal or not as good as we expected. Looking up to man is always a disappointment.

This book is offered to the reader for free; freely we have received, freely we should give. Hopefully more Christian authors will offer their books online for free. With the the internet one can share their book online for free or at the most pennies--after all if it is really for the Lord why charge for it, why limit the number of people that can afford to read it? Honestly there is only one thing I ask in return for the many hours of data and effort put in this web site- I ask for those who are close to Jesus and pray often to Him, to remember me and my family in your prayers. Exposing the enemy doesn't come without conflict, harsh battles in the spirit realm but also from "Christians" . Many dont want to believe that they have been living a lie for many years, its too hard to take. Its easier to ignore the evidence and lash out.

The Bible does give room for naming and exposing false teachers. Jesus constantly warned of them and we say this at the start to dispel the fears of a typical charismatic who are trained to shun any proof against 'a man of God'. Apostle Paul hadno problem naming false teachers. Jesus had no hesitation of openly rebuking heresy. Here Paul mentions some false teachers by name in a warning letter to Timothy, Jesus also warned about these charlatans:

2 Timothy 2:16-18

16 Avoid godless, foolish discussions that lead to more and more ungodliness. 17 This kind of talk spreads like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are examples of this. 18 They have left the path of truth, preaching the lie that the resurrection of the dead has already occurred; and they have undermined the faith of some."

Matthew 7:15

""Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. "

Acts 20: 29-31

"29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears."

For the type A personalities that cant wait for proof here is some right now that clearly demonstrates the Vineyard/Toronto Blessing is a heresy. Click this following links for a glimpse of what is going on in the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship (TACF):

Preaching while "drunk in the spirit" and making chicken sounds

Prophetess shaking her head violently at TACF

Go to www.bible.ca for more video and audio links

A new Vineyard CD is out called 'Winds of Worship Vol.3: Live from the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship. Why would the Vineyard cut a CD with this crazy group? Because Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship used to be called the Toronto Airport Vineyard until things got out of hand with the people barking, shaking, slain. They thought it was a move of God and called it "The Toronto Blessing". Things got out of hand so the Vineyard tried to make it look like they separated from the Toronto Church however, there really was no separation at all.

Previously to this release the Vineyard tried to make it look like they had nothing to do with the controversial Toronto Church, yet easy research proved strong ties between the Toronto Church with the rest of the Vineyard. Several Vineyard Churches invited "Toronto Blessing preachers" as guest speakers, this has been going on for years. In turn, the Toronto Church invited Vineyard Pastors as guest speakers.

Now, the Vineyard cut a CD with the Toronto Church clearly showing that they still are linked to the Toronto Blessing Church. The CD features popular Vineyard artists like David Ruis from Vineyard Christian Fellowship Kelowna, B.C. This project was the work of the national Vineyard Music Group.

Remember people making animal noises, shaking, uncontrolled laughter, drunkenness are practiced in this Church. To be linked to it even remotely should be of great concern. Its necessary to repeat as many cannot make the connection between these groups, it seems too bizarre.

If you clicked on the video links who would see Toronto Blessing "Pastors" acting like a chicken, screaming "I shot the sheriff", saying "You would think you walked into a mad house or something" ...people shaking on the ground ecetera.


The Alpha Course is linked to the Toronto Blessing as well!


Nicky Gumbel, who wrote the course, is a guest speaker at the bizarre Toronto Vineyard and he fully endorses the Toronto blessing movement as of God repeatedly in his videos and preaching, even going as so far to claim God threw a man across the room in a meeting--evidence given later. Gumbel's home church, Holy Trinity Brompton (HTB), is known for strange phenomena such as slain in the spirit, drunk in the spirit, laughing....to the point of providing taxi service for the one who are too "drunk in the spirit" to drive home.

Gumbel's call to ministry happened when the Late John Wimber ( Vineyard pings in again) anointed Gumbel. Wimber prayed "more power" on Gumbel. He couldn't take anymore power and prayed "no more power". A prayer shouting match occurred in the church between the two. The senior pastor of the Toronto Vineyard, John Arnott, spoke twice as a guest speaker in Gumbel's Church-Holy Trinity Brompton.

Why dont people in North America know about this? In the past, the Alpha books and videos from the UK include the Toronto Blessing and strange behavior such as the man being thrown across the room, however these videos and books were scrubbed, then sent to Canada and the United States. It has been said that Gumbel is simply spreading the Toronto Blessing into North American Churches by means of the Alpha course, much like the Trojan Horse.

The Alpha course initially looks like a great Bible Study that the unchurched could feel comfortable in, however at the end of the course the Toronto Blessing start to show up during the last phase of the course-The Holy Spirit Weekend. During this time many people have reported the "Holy Spirit" causing 'feelings of electricity', 'heat flashes' , 'uncontrolled laughter', 'uncontrolled crying', 'shaking', 'chest being pulled up'.

With no doubt, the Canadian and USA Churches are being conditioned to accept the Alpha course, and the Alpha course fully accepts the Toronto Blessing. This path is leading to a new era in the Church, one that will be open to the bizarre behavior as mentioned above as from the Holy Spirit. Some questions must be asked, what is the only sin not forgiven? What does the Toronto Blessing say the Holy Spirit is doing? Is the enemy dressed as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11) in these strange new doctrines? Gumbel might be confident that his "10,000 volts" electrifying anointing he received from Wimber is evidence of God's power, many-like us, would say he is deceived.

The Holy Spirit is not a energy force, the Holy Spirit of the Bible is a Person, part of the Holy Trinity. Interestingly enough to include is that Gumbel claims former New Age proponents grasp the "Holy Spirit" part of the Alpha course quicker then people from traditional Churches (quotes from Gumbel on this statement and others given later). When you check out what Alpha graduates say about the Holy Spirit- "feelings of electricity" , "heat flashes" etc we start to see one piece of the puzzle. Isn't it odd that there are no Biblical accounts of this type of movement from the Holy Spirit, yet we are told that the Alpha course is safe. A glass of fresh water that has a drop of cyanide poison in it looks safe as well. We must study the contents.


Gumbel is heavily into the Toronto Blessing (animal noises, shaking etc) and imported it from Canada to the United Kingdom along with top Vineyard Pastors, the Mumfords who are the head Pastors of the Southwest London Vineyard...the very Church where Brian Doerksen served and cut the CD "Winds of Worship London" a very famous CD that has songs like "Come now is the time to worship".

Nicky Gumbel, talks about Ellie Mumford in the Alpha video series 3, talk 9.
He recalls how someone was THROWN ACROSS THE ROOM when Ellie invited the "Holy" spirit to move:

"Ellie Mumford told us a little bit of what she had seen in Toronto...it was obvious that Ellie was just dying to pray for all of us.. then she said 'Now we'll invite the Holy Spirit to come.' and the moment she said that one of the people there was thrown, literally, across the room and was lying on the floor, just howling and laughing....making the most incredible noise....I experienced the power of the Spirit in a way I hadn't experienced for years, like massive electricity going through my body... One of the guys was prophesying. He was just lying there prophesying. . ."

The Alpha course started in the Holy Trinity Brompton in the United Kingdom. This same church has imported the Toronto blessing from the Canada Vineyard along with its blasphemous manifestations. The real message of Alpha is one of stealth that is hidden in the program. The fruit of Alpha is people who think they have met the Jesus of the Bible but really had an encounter with the jesus of Alpha. Another fruit of Alpha is during the 'Holy Spirit weekend' people have manifested on the ground with none other then the Toronto Blessing experiences. Toronto Blessing is in the root and it shows in the fruit.
People walk away from Alpha with a) a different gospel b) a different jesus c) a different spirit and I will fully explain why.

1) A different spirit.

Gumbel speaks of the Holy Spirit like an energy force. In one video he gives the account of John Wimber anointing him for ministry and describes the 'Holy Spirit' as a "10,000 volt" charge. This is his description of the Holy Spirit throughout the course- a power force rather then a Person, part of the Holy Trinity.

The main focus for this is the ‘Holy Spirit Weekend-Away’. People doing Alpha are told to expect all manner of things might happen to them. We are told,

"Sometimes, when people are filled, they shake like a leaf in the wind. Others find themselves breathing deeply as if almost physically breathing in the Spirit" (Gumbel 1994:136).

It is not restricted to this. however.

"Physical heat sometimes accompanies the filling of the Spirit and people experience it in their hands or some other part of their bodies. One person described a feeling of ‘glowing all over.’ Another said she experienced ‘liquid heat.’ Still another described ‘burning in my arms when I was not hot’" (Gumbel 1994:136).

It is very interesting the Gumbel admits that new age enthusiasts are "more at home" when they experience the weekend away with these manifestations. These points alone should be enough to warrant a red alert among leaders.

Shame on you Pastors and leaders for not standing for truth!

2) A different God

The god of Alpha doesn't send anyone to hell, he is all loving. Gumbel believes in annihilation, not a lake of fire as the Bible describes. Although Alpha mentions God a lot , it doesn't describe Him...leaving it up to the reader to figure out what god is.

3) A different Jesus and Gospel

The Alpha jesus doesn't have a reason to die on the cross. Since Alpha doesn't like to call people sinners, rather it claims we "messed up". Alpha doesn't talk about the wrath of God on sinners, it leaves out the harsh verses spoken by Jesus thus it allows the reader to make up their own jesus-one that would never condemn. Alpha's Gospel doesn't allow people to see their wretched sinful state , it doesn't allow them to see the impending judgement of God- which is throughout the New Testament. One must know the bad news before the good news can be known. If a person is told they are going to hell, they would want to know how to escape it. But in Alpha a person is told how to have an 'encounter' with God...and everyone wants a emotional high. Now Trinity Brompton is offering Pensecola Florida Revival books (Pastor from Pensecola caught the fire at Brompton which he claimed started the 'revival' there) One book they are offereing is on how to speak things into existance.

Isnt it interesting how the 'root' eventually came to fruition. If you study this whole deceit , step by step, on how it started: New age started to put on Christian clothes in the 1940's with Kenyon preac

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