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#73580 - 11/09/10 10:00 AM Re: DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS [Re: Keep It Fun]
mude Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 387
I do dig the wall ball concept. Lot of strikes and touches, etc. A good addition to other approaches.

It sounds like there really are good ideas and thinking going on at the Legends. I suspect it is still a good spot for young kids to have fun and learn some techniques. My son played there (for a coach that probably did not teach the current Legend's philosophy perfectly) for a couple of years before moving on.

I would then probably move my kids away after a couple of years as a guess. I would not want them to think that there is only a single way to think, approach a problem, or a single leader that deserves to be followed blindly. Way too narrow a mindset and not at all how I want my kids to approach the world.

It is interesting to note that my son's first touch got significantly better when he joined a team that utilized a style of lots of quick short passes and played against top competition. He was forced to really get confident with the ball against strong fast players. He was pretty solid before, but this forced the issue.

Otherwise, I regularly see kids with seemingly great skills. They look good and score, etc. against weak competition. Then they fade away when playing against agressive teams with speed. Too slow to move the ball. They still think their fancy moves will beat top athletes, etc. Instead, they are turnover factories that force the rest of the team to cover for them. Oh yeah......many also don't tend to work hard off the ball, struggle to understand shape, get back on defense, and tend to be weak in the air. They are too busy being stunned that it was pretty easy to stop their style of play that worked so well against soft players.

That sounds more negative than I mean it though, as I believe getting really comfortable with the ball is such a great starting point.

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#73582 - 11/09/10 11:50 AM Re: DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS [Re: mude]
AndyBarney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1713
Quote:
I regularly see kids with seemingly great skills. They look good and score, etc. against weak competition. Then they fade away when playing against agressive teams with speed. Too slow to move the ball. They still think their fancy moves will beat top athletes, etc. Instead, they are turnover factories that force the rest of the team to cover for them. Oh yeah......many also don't tend to work hard off the ball, struggle to understand shape, get back on defense, and tend to be weak in the air. They are too busy being stunned that it was pretty easy to stop their style of play that worked so well against soft players.


Quote:
My son played there (for a coach that probably did not teach the current Legend's philosophy perfectly) for a couple of years before moving on.


Mude,

By your own admission you didn't stay with the program. That's why you don't understand how our unique approach develops the highest quality of team player, i.e. fantastic leaders who can also play a great team game when the time is right.

The following is a factual record of players and teams who stayed with the program for the long haul. These are the players who received the full benefit of the Legends philosophy.

Anyone reading your post could easily get the wrong impression until they recognize that you didn't stay the course. The simple fact is that you have no direct personal experience of the amazing abilities players and teams who stick with the program develop.

Most importantly long-term Legends players become brave, creative leaders for life. This is because we challenge them to take personal growth risks without fear, guilt, shame or blame. When what they try goes wrong, the other team scores and their coach encourages the brave, creative effort despite a negative statistical outcome they learn that mistakes lead to expertise that knows no limit. That's powerful!!

Please read on for the Legend's Accomplishments:

Teams
48 - State Championships
21 - State Cup Runners Up
5 - Regional Champions
5 - National Final Four Appearances
2 - National Runner Up
1 - National Champion
14 - National Indoor Champions

Players
Over 400 - State ODP Players
25 - Regional ODP Players
5 - National ODP Players
30 - Professional Players
Over 360 - College Players
5 - High School All-Americans

The KC Athletics (A team comprised of mostly ex-Legends 81/82 Alumni) wins National U20 USASA Championship beating Southern California 9-1 in the process.

83/84 Legends won 4 National Indoor Soccer Championships and placed 2nd twice from 1995-2002.

79/80 Legends won 3 National Indoor Championships from 1994-1999

The only time UMKC went to two consecutive National Tournaments was when they had multiple Legends alums on their roster (Ben Baumgart, Beau Williams, Ryan Barber, Drew Perkins, Geoff Miles, Jason Woods, Jimmy Davey, Ryan Kaufman, Chad Ramey).

When Blue Valley high School won back to back State Championships in 2000/2001 most of the key players were long-term KC Legends.

When Rockhurst High School won back to back State Championships in 1998/1999 most of the key players were long-term KC Legends.

When Shawnee Mission North West won back to back State Championships in 1998/1999 most of the key players were long-term KC Legends.

In 2005 the West Des Moines Menace won the PDL with long-term Legend alum’s Jesse Baker, (Later Minnesota thunder), or Corey Farabi, (Drafted KC Wizards), scoring in the 4 conference & national final games including the game winning semi-final goal (Farabi) & key PK’s for both players in the championship (http://pdl.uslsoccer.com/home/105814.html)
http://www.soccertimes.com/proleagues/pdl/2005/aug13
http://www.menacesoccer.com/team/alumni/

In 2005 Legends Alum’ Andy Metcalf was the PDL Top Goal scorer With 18 For the Cape Cod Crusaders

In most St Thomas Aquinas High School State Championship teams through the years Legends players have made key contributions.

12 Legends Alums On St Thomas Aquinas All Time Points Leaders List (With * in front of their name)

David Grimsley 163 1991-94
* Coleton Henning 152 2004-07
* Matt Blouin 137 1999-02
Josh Lents 120 1991-94
David Martinez 112 1996-99
* Michael Thomas 110 2002-05
* Chris Lee 108 1997-00
* Brian Spitzkeit 103 1993-96
* Matt Stillwell 101 2001-04
* Mark Roennigke 99 1992-95
* Patrick White 95 2003-06
Shawn McCullough 90 1993-96
Kevin Powers 90 1990-93
Brian Hartis 87 1990-93
* Keith Gorczyca 75 2000-03
* David Seefeldt 73 2000-03
Eric White 70 1991-94
Brendan Copeland 62 2005-08
* Peter Clevinger 61 2002-05
Shanti Johnson 59 1991-92
Kevin Conkright 59 1990-93
Josh Magness 58 2005-08
Calvin Clark 57 2002-05
*Jaime Zarse 56 2001-04

In the history of Kansas City High School soccer back to back State Championships have only ever been won by teams with a high concentration of KC Legends players playing in key positions.

The only times Drake University have featured in National Tournaments was when they had multiple Legends alums on their roster (Zach Brennan, Jesse Baker, Corey Farabi, Josh Yeretsky, Garrett Webb, Luke Gorczyca, Matt Kuhn, Matt Prather).

In the 2009 NCAA DI sweet sixteen game against Boston College Drake won 6-4. Legends alum’s Luke Gorczyca, Garrett Webb & Matt Kuhn scored the last 4 of Drake's 6 goals.

JCCC went to the 2009 NJCAA National Championship game with three Legends alums on their roster. Two (Megan Weston & Rachel Pride) were amongst the highest four points scorers on the team.

2009 Benedictine College wins their conference and earns a berth at the NAIA National Finals in Fresno California with multiple Legends Alumni. Legends Alum Brendan Copeland gets assist on the only goal while GK Tanner Fox records the shut out. Other Legends alum's on roster include Remy, Smith, Raplinger, Parkhurst, Lausman, Clevinger, Durbin, Montgomery


Legends alum Ari Rodopoulos dribbled from his own half to score the winning goal for Blue Spring HS in the Missouri State High School Championship final.

Joe Burns dribbled from his own half to score the winning goal for the Legends 81/82 team in the USYSA Region II Championship final.

Jason Cole dribbled from his own half to score the winning goal for the Legends 79/80 team in the USYSA Region II Championship final.

Mark Roennigke was awarded a free kick when fouled while executing a Maradona Turn in the USYSA Region II Championship final. The winning goal was scored from that free kick.

A full list of alumni achievements can be seen at the following link:

Legends Alumni

Hope this allows people to see the factual evidence and draw their own conclusions.

smile Andy

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#73583 - 11/09/10 12:01 PM Re: DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS [Re: AndyBarney]
raiderdude Offline
addict

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 579
Loc: God's Country - North of the R...
I just puked in my mouth a little.

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#73587 - 11/09/10 01:03 PM Re: DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS [Re: raiderdude]
CLASSICS Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 119
Loc: North Kansas City
Any recent accomplishments’; maybe within the last 10 years?

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#73589 - 11/09/10 01:44 PM Re: DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS [Re: raiderdude]
mude Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 387
Wow! My quaint little post attracted the ire of the man himself. lol

I have tried many times to point out that I think there is some real good in your approach Andy. I actually tried to give you a little bit of credit for the success that my son has had at various times. I suggested that spending a few years in your program might be a good idea. But, you are so wrapped up in convincing yourself that you are perfectly right that you are missing opportunities to gain influential supporters. A key idea for marketing. When we moved here from the east coast, a person I trusted recommended the Legends as the good place to learn. We took his advice. I asked him recently and he laughed when I asked if he would make the same suggestion.

You are welcome to distance yourself from the current crop of solid players because they believe there are benefits to listening to more than one person. In the past, you have been very comfortable in claiming the success of any player that spent even minimal time in your program. I have a friend whose daughter was on your list at one time and she only guest played at times. How many of those players listed also got some learning beyond the Legends? Have you changed the list to try to make it more honest or is it the same list as in the past? I have tried to give you some credit for getting my kid going with some good skills. But fair enough, if you think you were bad in the past and that we did not stay long enough to get any benefit, then so be it.

Your debate tactics of overwhelming with old data and to attack those that don't agree with every detail is disappointing. As a man that claims to “study,” you should be careful and causation. Pointing out that STA won back to back championships and that you had players on those teams is interesting at best. It might also say something about the STA program rather than yours. One of many examples that would likely not pass muster as “science.” Certainly not the stuff of creative, great leadership. That is why it would be hard to recommend you if you really live the way you write. I assume the kids in your club will escape with a belief system that does not include believing that only one approach solves everything, or that there is only a single route to creativity (wouldn’t it be nice if politicians did not have to stick to party lines?). Such an non-creative concept. But, I do get the feeling you are passionate about your approach and I applaud the energy.

I just finished watching some of the better high school players for a season, and will soon be doing the same with club ball. I’m sure there will be a listing of college commitments and that sort of thing and we can see the results. There is already a listing of the recent honors for the EKL. There are certainly a few kids on that list where I don’t know their clubs….perhaps some are Legends? Maybe your alumni record is about to expand with bunch of new listings?



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#73599 - 11/09/10 07:46 PM Re: DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS [Re: mude]
AndyBarney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1713
Quote:
Otherwise, I regularly see kids with seemingly great skills. They look good and score, etc. against weak competition. Then they fade away when playing against agressive teams with speed. Too slow to move the ball. They still think their fancy moves will beat top athletes, etc. Instead, they are turnover factories that force the rest of the team to cover for them. Oh yeah......many also don't tend to work hard off the ball, struggle to understand shape, get back on defense, and tend to be weak in the air. They are too busy being stunned that it was pretty easy to stop their style of play that worked so well against soft players.


Mude

The above was your quote. What's interesting is that college coaches must be seeing the exact opposite of what you see because they've been recruiting, (and spending a significant portion of their scholarship funds on), Legends players for many years now.

I really don't see that you have a leg to stand on in this discussion. The evidence that Legends training is great preparation for soccer and life beyond the high school years is overwhelming.

smile Andy

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#73600 - 11/09/10 08:18 PM Re: DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS [Re: AndyBarney]
mude Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 387
Are you serious Andy.......you want to make this about kids that go on to play in college? You believe that is the primary measure tool for your argument?

I really did not mean for it to come to this as I respect some of your ideas. I would like for you to consider teaching kids that to be successful, it is foolish to only consider one approach. But you do your thing.

As far as your challenge......I have talked to quite a few college coaches this past year. I've been to a lot of games where they are scouting players, etc.

Let's not embarass any of the kids, but do you have any boys that have committed or are being seriously recruited right now? Did you last year? I mean kids that are actually in the Legends program.

I hope your defense is not related to not having teams or something like that. That is completely under your control and if you chose to run off the kids and coaches that would make up your U18 teams, that was your creative leadership at work. You had some of the best coaches and athletes even just a few years ago, but chose to run them off for various reasons. You very well may have U18 teams, but I have not seen them in competitive play for a while.

I really don't mean to embarass you or your HS boys players. Again, I am surprised that is your current debate tactic, but I will listen to current facts if you want to brag about the boys that just went to college or are choosing between their options now.

I also hope you remind them that there is a lot more academic money than the 9.9 for a fully funded D1 school these days.




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#73605 - 11/10/10 06:55 AM Re: DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS [Re: mude]
AndyBarney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1713
Quote:
You are full of contradictions...

Let's not embarass any of the kids, but do you have any boys that have committed or are being seriously recruited right now? Did you last year? I mean kids that are actually in the Legends program.



Mude

You continue to make my case for me. Just this year we have seen three players who played for our club for many years make Regional and/or National ODP squads.

It seems that players who get the benefit of years of Legends skill training retain their Legends head start throughout their youth career, whether they are still involved with the Legends or not. This only makes sense because everything else being equal, the child who starts ahead remains ahead.

The historical facts show that past Legends players make it to the next level they try out for in unprecedented numbers. That's exciting!!

The records also show that every Legends team that has retained a significant nucleus of children who were trained the Legends way from an early age has enjoyed incredible relative individual and team success.

This track record of success for the teams and individuals who stayed with the program, along with the success enjoyed by individuals who started with our program and joined other teams, should provide even the most cynical observer with evidence enough that our unique coaching philosophy works incredibly well in soccer and life.

smile Andy


Edited by AndyBarney (11/10/10 07:00 AM)

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#73606 - 11/10/10 07:26 AM Re: DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS [Re: AndyBarney]
raiderdude Offline
addict

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 579
Loc: God's Country - North of the R...
Originally Posted By: AndyBarney
Just this year we have seen three players who played for our club for many years make Regional and/or National ODP squads.

smile Andy


I think his question was about last years and this years U18 teams, not kids that played for your club and left for various reasons.

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#73607 - 11/10/10 07:43 AM Re: DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS [Re: raiderdude]
hindsight2020 Offline
member

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 130
from mrs. hindsight

andy, by your standards of success measured by graduates of your program KCFC is the best coaching for kids

their list of college players makes your list wither, at least for girls, in recent years

how many of your players right now get called up to the national team at any age group?

maybe GSI should put walls at the new Olathe complex...

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