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#77044 - 05/27/11 09:25 AM Re: Costs ECNL vs. MRL vs. TRADITIONAL [Re: zidane5]
aclifton Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 330
Loc: Kansas City
Kaka,

That is the type of mistake that has been made in many clubs across the country. So many of the top tier clubs have invested all or most of their resources into the top 10% of their players.

I recently was working in Memphis with the city of Germantown to organize their soccer, both rec and premier. The Legends club there was in a competitive bid process with TN Rush and the Collierville Lobos. The overwhelming feeling down there, and in other places across the country that I've worked, is that too many clubs are providing all the resources to the top tier at the expense of the other 90% of their players.

My perspective is that is a mistake. It accomplishes little as it is far too short sighted. Similar to the Bradenton academy and the U17 residency program. We've got to cast our net wider.

Andrew


Edited by aclifton (05/27/11 09:26 AM)

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#77047 - 05/27/11 09:37 AM Re: Costs ECNL vs. MRL vs. TRADITIONAL [Re: Jayhonk]
paulie_walnuts Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 360
Loc: West Virginny
Originally Posted By: Jayhonk
This has to be related to that phenomenon where Moms in New York City freak out about getting their kids into the 'right' pre-school, costing five figures per year. Because the right pre-school leads to the right private grade school, which leads to the right private high school, which leads to the right Ivy league school, which, of course, leads to the highest paying job, and the best life.

Objectively, paying this amount of money for kids soccer makes NO sense.


ware i comes from, da moms are eggsited wen dare chilluns grows up wid a mowth full a teefers!

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#77048 - 05/27/11 09:43 AM Re: Costs ECNL vs. MRL vs. TRADITIONAL [Re: aclifton]
THE HUMAN ATM Offline
stranger

Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 7
Ran across this great detail, while looking for more, thanks BVSC.

Not sure if this was already posted on another discussion, sorry if so. Detailed information on ECNL plans from BVSC. One point I missed previously was rostering up to 26 per team.
*
The ECNL is a national youth soccer league founded in
2009 for U-15 through U-18 girls’ teams for the purpose
of providing the highest level of competition and the best
dev.elopmental environment for American female youth
soccer players, as well as an identification and
development program, which will seek to include players
in US Soccer’s National Teams.
* 2011-2012 BVSC U15-U18 Schedule
8 Home games
8 Away games
August 27th : vs KCFC (KS)
September 10th : at Vadar (MI)
September 11th: at Hawks (MI)
September 24th : vs Sockers (IL)
September 25th : vs Eclipse (IL)
October 1st : at KCFC (KS)
October 22nd : Cross-Conference
22 Dallas Texans at Hurricanes (TX) (Game)
October 23rd : at TSC Hurricanes (OK) (Cross-Conference Game)
October 30th : vs SLSG (MO)
November 5th: vs Atlanta Fire (GA) (Cross-Conference Game)
November 6th: vs Concorde Fire (GA) (Cross-Conference Game)
November 12th : at MN Thunder Academy (MN)
November 13th : FC Milwaukee (WI) at MN
December 3rd: at SLSG (MO)
December 4th: Carmel (IN) at SLSG
December 10th: vs MN Thunder Academy (MN)
December 11th: vs Carmel United (IN)
*
In 2011-2012, ECNL National Event Competitions are being held at the U14, U15, U16,
U17 and U18 age groups with varying degrees of commitment.
The U15-U18 age groups feature 2 flights for the ECNL National Event Competitions,
based upon results from the previous year.
2011-2012 ECNL National Event Competition commitment by age:
U14 – ECNL National Championship
U15 – 2 National Events + ECNL National Championship
U16 – 3 National Events + ECNL National Championship
U17 – 3 National Events + ECNL National Championship
U18 – 2 National Events + ECNL National Championship (top 8 teams only)
*
TENTATIVE 2011-12 ECNL EVENTS
October 8th-10th ECNL Fall Showcase Las Vegas or Phoenix
Dec. 28-30, 2011 ECNL Winter Showcase Sanford, Florida
February 24th-26th ECNL Late Winter Showcase Texas
April 2012 ECNL Spring Showcase San Diego
May 26-28, 2012 ECNL Memorial Day Showcase East Coast
June 2012 (week of June 25th)
ECNL National Championship
( NO ENTRY FEE)
Midwest)
*
BVSC TEAMS COMMITMENT
*
•ECNL teams will train 3 times per week (tentatively Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday)
•Training will cover technical and tactical aspects of the game through functional
sessions.
• Functional Training by the BVSC Technical Staff
•Players will also be challenged to attain good level of fitness with weekly Soccer Fit
sessions.
•Integrated goalkeeper training to improve game management and decision making
by the keepers.
•Winter training will be done in preparation for events taking place in December and
February. It is therefore essential for players to display the necessary commitment
and dedication.
*
•MRL teams will train 2 times per week (tentatively Monday/Wednesday)
•Training will cover technical and tactical aspects of the game through functional
sessions.
•Players will also be challenged to attain good level of fitness with weekly Soccer Fit
sessions (recommended).
•Integrated goalkeeper training to improve game management and decision making
by the keepers.
•Players may be asked to train with the ECNL teams.
*
MRL t ill ti i t i KSYSA t t f th 2011 2012
BVSC’S Involvement in State Cup
• teams will participate in state cup for the 2011-season
• The club intends to have the MRL teams compete to qualify and participate in the
USYSA Regional and National Championships
• ECNL teams (Sporting BVSC) will compete in the ECNL National Championships /
Showcase.
*
• The club will continue to field MRL teams
BVSC’S Involvement in The MRL
• MRL players can be added to the ECNL rosters and participate in ECNL events.
• BVSC will continue to provide the MRL teams with the opportunity to participate in
high caliber Showcase tournaments
*
• ECNL players opportunity BVSC’S Involvement in id2
will have the to be invited to the id2 national camp
• Players will be scouted by the ECNL staff members during ECNL matches and
have the opportunity to participate in a yearly National Camp.
• Id2 National Camp costs are covered by the ECNL. Players are responsible for
their travel cost.
http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/home/500729.html
*
• Up to 26 players can be on an team
Rosters for ECNL events
ECNL team.
• State cup rosters are limited to 18 players at U15 and expand to 22 players at U16-
U17 and U18.
• Determination of roster size will be made at tryouts.
• Tryouts will be held at Overland Park Soccer Complex on June 11th.
• Please refer to website www.bvsoccer.org.
• Players can play in different age groups at the same event.
• Players can participate in only one game per day.
*
U14 BVSC STARS Fiorentina – Wayne Evans
U15 BVSC STARS Arsenal – Paul Rideout
U16 BVSC STARS United – Nacole Neuendorf
U17 BVSC STARS Sevilla – John Markey
U18 BVSC STARS Villa Real – Paul Rideout
*
U14 Sporting BVSC Girls – Nacole Neuendorf
U15 Sporting BVSC Girls – Chris Duke/Nacole Neuendorf
U16 Sporting BVSC Girls – Chris Duke
U17 Sporting BVSC Girls – Wayne Evans
U18 Sporting BVSC Girls – Jon Parry
*
Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) is the premier
women’s soccer league in the country, and BVSC is
proud to be a part of this select league. BVSC believes
the ECNL provides the best format for female player
development throughout the country.

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#77052 - 05/27/11 10:34 AM Re: Costs ECNL vs. MRL vs. TRADITIONAL [Re: THE HUMAN ATM]
Keep It Fun Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 2404
Loc: Kansas City, MO
It would be nice if for a change we could get truth instead of propaganda.
I try to avoid pimps. What they want is your money at the expense of others.

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#77053 - 05/27/11 10:57 AM Re: Costs ECNL vs. MRL vs. TRADITIONAL [Re: zidane5]
Kaka Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 2316
I think you pay something to be in one of these ECNL/MRL pools but you have to absorb some of this cost as a larger group. Otherwise you only get the talent that can afford it. Now that is absurd. Adverse selection at the highest level.

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#77056 - 05/27/11 11:51 AM Re: Costs ECNL vs. MRL vs. TRADITIONAL [Re: Kaka]
oldfatdude Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 826
Loc: Kansas
I remember reading about Dempsy growing up. His sister was a high level tennis player. At one point his parents had to choose which kid to sink all the money into because it was so expensive. They chose the daughter and he had to stop playing competitive soccer for a while. I always thought that must have been a really tough decision for the family. I wonder how people with two talented daughters will handle this. Will they shell out $20,000 a year?

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#77058 - 05/27/11 12:41 PM Re: Costs ECNL vs. MRL vs. TRADITIONAL [Re: oldfatdude]
Sokker Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/11
Posts: 205
Dempsy surely worked on his skills on his own, for free, during his down time. Probably was good for him - made him appreciate the game more. Heard several Comets players talking about how they never had the chance to play competitive soccer - just practiced with their fathers in their yard. Look at all the young kids with limited skill "going competitive" in these clubs... 99% of competitive club soccer is for affluent people in the suburbs. Pick a bunch of poor city kids or rural kids who don't have iPods, X Box, etc., and teach them soccer for a year or two... they'd appreciate it so much, they'd smoke most of these "competitive" teams. Football, baseball, and basketball provide more truly competitive and inexpensive opportunities for poor kids in America. Until we figure that out, US soccer will continue to suffer at the higher levels, because only the most talented 1% of the richest kids make it, instead of 1% of all the kids.

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#77073 - 05/27/11 05:16 PM Re: Costs ECNL vs. MRL vs. TRADITIONAL [Re: Kaka]
kcfutbal Offline
member

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 185
What usually happens is the families of the other members of the team end up subsidizing the player whose family cannot afford to pay his or her equal share. Every team my child has been on since age 10 has had at least one family with payment issues. Many times, the issue and how it is handled is only know by the team manager, coach and treasurer. Other parents have regularly taken the player to out of town tournaments and covered the cost of gas and hotel for the player. Coaches often waive their coaching fees for that player. Most of the larger clubs also are attempting to provide scholarships to cover a portion of the expenses for these types of players.

Unfortunately, everyone has a different idea of what is fair when subsidizing the cost for one player and when it should occur. For example, should a player be allowed to not pay coaching fees and his share of tournament fees while he and his parent (or parents) travel at their own expenses to all of the out of town events while the parents of other players who are not granted this financial assistance have to stay home because they cannot afford to pay to travel to see their child play?

Should the less financially able players only be allowed to attend the out of town events they are able to pay to play in?

If a team does fundraisers, should a player whose does little or nothing to assist with the fundraising get to equally share in the money raised?

Should a team cover a player's expenses when the player's family continually buys him expensive soccer cleats every few months?

Each situation may call for a different solution.

As the level at which the team competes increases, so do the financial issues for all involved. Sponsorship of the top teams by businesses would greatly reduce this burden on all. You see sponsorships in youth baseball and some other sports but it has not been wide-spread in youth soccer.


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#77075 - 05/27/11 06:49 PM Re: Costs ECNL vs. MRL vs. TRADITIONAL [Re: kcfutbal]
kcysf1 Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 36
Maybe by next year there will be teams closer to KC. We in fly over country are on an ECNL island compared to Texas, California, or the East Coast. That drives the cost up to participate significantly.


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#77082 - 05/27/11 09:08 PM Re: Costs ECNL vs. MRL vs. TRADITIONAL [Re: aclifton]
Kaka Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 2316
It's not all about who gets the resources Andrew. Come away from the dark side with me. A top tier team in a club should get some support. It's a good reward for kids that work hard.

I don't know anything about Sporting Juniors, but that looks like a pretty good deal to me. Somebody was telling me they stayed fairly loyal to the existing rosters. Maybe 10-15% turnover.

Sporting is trying the model. The fan base is supporting at least half the cost of these kids playing soccer. And from what I have heard, they have to work their butt off. I think Clubs have to duplicate that model for sharing the costs.

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